Healing Through Art and Navigating No Contact

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Dhalia never showed me nothing but kindness.

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She would say, I know how sad you get.

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And some days I still get that way, but it gets better.

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It gets better.

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It gets better.

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Sweetie, it gets better, I promise you.

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And she'd tell me, she'd tell me.

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Your heart is a muscle the size of your fist.

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Keep on loving.

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Keep on fighting.

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And Hold on, hold on.

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Hold on for your life.. .

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Hecate: Hi there.

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Thank you so much for joining me.

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I'm Hecate, and this is Finding OK, a healing podcast for survivors of sexual assault and any and all abuse.

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When survivors share, we share strength.

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You are not alone.

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Today I'm excited to share my interview with Monika.

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Monika is a Polish LGBTQ+ comic artist and she's best known for her popular series, My Secret Lesbian Comics, which has over 28,000 subscribers on Webtoon.

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But she also has a side project which folks may not know about, and it's a comic called Self-pity Social Club.

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Monika is a survivor of child abuse and is processing her trauma and finding healing through her work on Self-pity Social Club.

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I hope you check it out because art and storytelling is so important and can sometimes help readers or viewers better process and understand their own trauma and experiences just by seeing it expressed visually.

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Monika and I spoke about her abusive mother, the events that helped her decide to go no contact, and how she's been navigating that within her family.

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I do want to add some context before we get into it.

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This interview was recorded in 2024, just as I was halting podcast production and heading into a mental health break that ended up being over a year long.

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Monika agreed to the interview knowing it would be a while before it aired, but neither of us knew exactly how long.

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She was so kind and so understanding about the whole thing, and I am still so grateful.

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So I just wanted you to know about that time gap because there are some moments where we'll talk about the political climate, especially for trans folks, and I need you to know that it's from last year and we're not just deeply, deeply out of touch.

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Also, please know that she's done so much more incredible work since this was recorded, and that you can go check that out and get updates on her story by reading her comics.

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So if you're listening.

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And you've ever been in a rough place and had someone be really incredible and patient with you, please know that that was Monika, and please celebrate and reward that empathy and kindness by supporting her work.

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Now let's get into it.

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Trigger and content warnings for this episode include the following.

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Child abuse, PTSD, depression, suicide, and strong language.

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Please check in with yourself and make sure you're all right to continue.

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If you enjoy the podcast, please consider supporting my work by becoming a Patreon member.

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Tiers start as low as $1 a month, and membership at any level changes my life.

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Tier three and four patrons gain early access to Finding OK episodes, as well as a supplemental Patron Podcast called Finding More.

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Tier four Patrons, get early access to video episodes of both Finding OK and Finding More.

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Creating this podcast takes an incredible amount of time, energy, and emotional labor, and so if you believe what I'm creating has value and you believe in supporting survivors and compensating them for their labor, please click the link in episode notes to learn more about membership benefits.

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Finding OK is funded entirely by the generosity of Patrons and listeners like you.

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Thank you.

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Thank you so much for joining me.

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And I wanted to start by asking, are you okay?

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Thank you for having me.

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I'm really happy to see you.

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And I'm pretty good these days.

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Thank you.

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Nice.

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Probably better than ever.

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What's making it better than ever these days?

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Uh, well, just the fact that I don't speak to my mother anymore and, and, um, the flying monkeys have finally calmed down with pressuring me into putting her back in my life because all the other family members can't admit that she's mental.

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So they're kind of like, yeah, we understand.

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So, so that's better.

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And also I realized, um, I should combat stress by just telling myself that art is my main job.

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And my daytime job is irrelevant.

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And so I've been trying to do that and use that to stress less about my daytime job, right?

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So, that's been helpful.

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That's wonderful.

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Those are two huge shifts.

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So, congratulations on both of them.

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Wow.

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Thank you.

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Well, actually, I haven't been speaking to my mother for over three years, so it's not new.

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But

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I mean, the flying monkeys calming down.

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Like, that always makes a huge difference.

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Yeah.

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Yes, there's only one left.

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I, I'm shocked he, it's crazy because it's my dad actually.

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So he doesn't speak to her because of what she did to me, but he wants me to speak to her.

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And I'm like, where's the logic in that?

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Like,

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Make it make sense!

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You can, yes.

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If you can't stand her then please don't make me.

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Yeah.

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I think a lot of it is generational.

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I hear a lot of conversation about, like, there being this generational shift where older generations have this, familial responsibility of, like, "she's your mother", or, like, "they're your parent", like, "you only get one, like, you should", the, millennials onward tend to, to be more willing to just be like, no, like, you have to treat me well, or if you haven't, you have to take responsibility for that, and if you can't, then you don't get to be a part of my life.

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Just not a lot of, uh, of understanding in between the generations in terms of, like, that's an okay decision to make.

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Yes, I do think millennials and younger care much more about mental health.

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Whereas the older generations were just like, well, let's drink beer every day.

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That's mental health sorted.

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Fixed it! Yeah.

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No problem.

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Yeah.

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I think that very, very much like a different dynamic, I guess maybe, you know, kind of depends like on, on like class structure as well, but like a generational, mindset of, well, you just work until you die and, uh, and just like, yeah, and I, I think like when, when you shift away from that and prioritize mental health, I think just a number of shifts, generationally, so I think they're all interconnected,

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Yes, I'm very interested to see what the world will look like in another 20 years.

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Yes, I am as well.

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Nervous.

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Yes!

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But, interested

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I'm not like, I'm grateful that I live in times where everything is changing at a quick pace, because I think if I were one of those people in 1600s who were just milking cows their whole life, I would be very bored.

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But I like that there's changes, there's always like new technologies.

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You know, uh, more awareness.

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So I, I, I'm positive about the future.

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I think it'll be better.

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I like that mindset.

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Yeah.

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It's, it's been, it's been hard lately and yeah, like a lot of, like big, big changes, big shifts happening right now, but I completely agree with you.

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Mm-hmm.

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Like, I, I would rather be alive.

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Like, in modern times, rather than any other, especially being like, a femme person or a queer person, or

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Yes.

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Absolutely.

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Not that it's, not that it's easier, or like, completely like, aces all the way, but certainly better than it has been

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Now, I'm not gonna get murdered for it, uh, you know, by the state.

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So, uh, that's, that's a plus.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Less likely to be murdered for it, I'll say, yeah.

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Yes, yes, yes, of course, of course, trans minorities still have it bad, um, and I do feel for them, yeah.

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And I, I wanted to mention, before talking to you, I just reread, like, all your work, and, uh, and was loving, like, the, the more recent stuff, too, and just every time I see one of your, I love all of it, but every time I see one of your comics, that is like trans inclusive and affirming or like fuck TERFs I'm like yes! And it makes me so happy thank you for doing that!

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Yes I'm actually consciously doing that on purpose because I do follow every um lesbian comic artist I can find right?

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And I almost never see them mentioning that topic if they're cis so I'm like well but I'm cis but I have something to say because I have trans lesbian friends and like why why is their life so hard?

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Like, can anybody just leave them alone, please?

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Like,

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Yeah,

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absolutely, yeah.

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Yeah, beautiful, beautiful sapphic women that, like, deserve to be uplifted and, acknowledged.

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Especially, like, in the circles that they're a part of.

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So, like, I just, I so appreciate that.

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Yeah, awesome.

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Yes, I actually feel like, I have a conspiracy theory, if you don't mind.

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I have a conspiracy theory that the governments are pushing the trans hate because it's an easy scapegoat.

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To like, this divert the attention, you know, the public's attention from actual issues, you know, like where are our taxes going?

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Why are the rich people getting richer?

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And they're like, oh no, look, um, trans woman using bathroom.

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Be angry at that, not at me.

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I'm convinced this is what's happening.

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See, I don't even see that as a conspiracy theory because that is so straight up what's happening where I'm just sort of like, no, like we're, we're not gonna put that in like the same realm of Bigfoot, that is 100% what's happening right now.

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Yes.

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I see.

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Yeah.

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Like trans folks, minorities, like all that, all that hatred is, is just to, you know, just very much like, look over here.

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Yes.

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Yes, like it used to be like that with gay people, and now it's no longer"cool", quote marks, to hate gay people, so they just chose an escape word, and that's, um, that's horrible.

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I can't remember what country you're in right now, because I know that you're Polish.

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Right, yes.

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Are you in Poland, or, living in a different country?

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So I'm Polish, but I live in England.

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England.

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Okay.

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I don't know how it is over there right now, but like, we've got a whole bunch more, uh, just like within, within this year, I think since like 2024 started.

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So just.

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a month and I, I think it's like hundreds of, of anti trans bills just like hit the deck.

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And it's just like, this is obscene and ridiculous.

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And I would love if we could be done with this.

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We don't have it easy here.

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Like I know a lot of trans women get their estrogen illegally because the waiting list on NHS is extremely long.

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I know the politicians keep mentioning that.

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And again, I think that's a diversion tactic, like oh my god, it's not that big of a deal, like why do we care about gender so much?

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Like, it doesn't matter, let's have 500 genders, who cares?

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Like,

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Yeah!

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Get your own problems.

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Yeah! I just, I just don't, yeah, I don't, I don't get, like, what the, what the problem is, and it, like, whenever, whenever someone says that, um, that thing that's supposed to scare you, like, well, how many genders?

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And it's just sort of, like, You can have all of them and just like, like you haven't reached the point in your scary argument where anything is actually hurting anybody.

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Yes.

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And if you don't make that point, I'm sorry, then the next step is for you just, just to accept that, more people maybe exist than you thought or like in ways that you don't, don't understand and that maybe you just have to learn something new.

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And.

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That that's okay, and I'll bet you can do it, buddy, if you just...

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yeah! I believe in you! Open your mind.

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Oh my god.

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But I would love to hear a compliment that you've received and that you've never forgotten.

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Right, so it's quite a funny one, actually, because one time here in England, I was at a train station, and I was just checking my makeup in a pocket mirror, because rarely, but I do wear makeup once in a while, And then some random guy was just like running past, he was like, Don't worry, you look beautiful! And he ran off.

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That's so freaking sweet!

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So I really appreciate it, cause like, well, it was obvious he wasn't like, even trying to hit on me, he just wanted to make my day, and I was like, Oh, bless you.

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Thank you.

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I actually love those, those like drive by compliments that like require nothing, you don't have that like pressure of like what are they expecting or trying to do, where it's just like brightening your day and then leaving and it just makes you really happy.

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Yeah.

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Like compliments from women.

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I will take any day and I, I, whichever way they mean it, I will take it.

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But compliments from men, right?

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So I am like, thank you but...

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Is there a hidden contract in here that I don't know about?

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I don't, I don't know.

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I don't know.

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Um, yeah, no compliments from women are such a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful thing.

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Actually, I just had a funny one the other day.

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So I was clubbing, not this week, but the week before.

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And we were just pushing, me and my friends, we were pushing through the crowd.

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It was very crowdy.

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And then some random woman, I never spoke to her before, she just grabbed my arm.

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She was like, You're beautiful and I love you.

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And I was like, I think she's on drugs.

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But thank you.

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Probably, but that doesn't mean it's not true.

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Thank you.

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Yeah.

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I enjoyed that.

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I was like, okay, that made my day.

00:14:12.967 --> 00:14:16.988
And what is your favorite color or color combination and what do you associate with it?

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So my favorite color is purple.

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But I don't associate it with anything specific.

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I don't know.

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I just, I just love the hue of it.

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Nice.

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I knew somehow.

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I knew somehow.

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Yes! I was gonna say, you're in my mind.

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The uh, the light, I put the light on purple as well, so I like, oh, I knew.

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Okay.

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All right.

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I was feeling purple today.

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And um, if I had to summon you in a ritual, what five things would I need to place as offerings at each point of the pentacle on the floor?

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Yes, so one would be a comic book, because I'm obsessed with them, that's my number one thing in life.

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Does it matter which one?

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Like, any comic book?

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Just any manga, comic book, Garfield, whatever, just like, I've been obsessed since I could read, basically.

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Um, and a figurine of a giraffe, because I'm super tall.

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I'm 5'11 and my friends jokingly will call me like a giraffe or a female titan.

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I like that.

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A Polish dumpling, because I'm Polish and I really love dumplings, like, whenever I go to Poland, I have to have Polish dumplings.

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Another one is a postal stamp, because, um, one of my most nerdy qualities, I actually collect stamps, um, so that would be one of those, yeah.

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And the last one would be cheese.

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Mmm, what kind of cheese?

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Any cheese?

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Any cheese, I eat them all.

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Is there a comic book that, you remember, you mentioned you had started reading them, like, growing up.

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Is there one that stands out, as your favorite growing up as a child that, like, made you fall in love?

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For me it was Calvin and Hobbes.

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Oh my god, so good.

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So good.

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But I haven't read that as a child.

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I don't think it was translated to Polish at that point.

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The one I read back in Poland was Donald Duck.

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I had like volumes and volumes of it.

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And I was also obsessed with Garfield.

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I think because Garfield is a comic strip.

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That probably really imprinted in me the idea of doing comic strips.

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Yeah.

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Actually, I have a funny story.

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So, the whole reason I'm a comic artist is because of a misunderstanding.

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Because, when I was a child, right?

00:16:28.222 --> 00:16:29.802
So I was a young child reading comics.

00:16:29.812 --> 00:16:31.543
Let's say I was nine or ten years old.

00:16:32.003 --> 00:16:38.322
And then I realized, well, there are no adults around me reading comics, so perhaps it's not allowed for adults to read comics.

00:16:38.462 --> 00:16:39.283
Oh my god, that's horrible.

00:16:39.352 --> 00:16:40.452
I don't want to stop reading them.

00:16:40.932 --> 00:16:45.852
And then I realized Wait a second, but it's not children drawing them, it's the adults drawing them.

00:16:46.033 --> 00:16:49.123
So if I draw them, I will be allowed to still like them.

00:16:50.903 --> 00:16:51.383
I love that.

00:16:51.533 --> 00:16:53.852
So that's how I became a comic artist, actually.

00:16:54.192 --> 00:16:55.393
I love that.

00:16:55.403 --> 00:16:56.932
That's so beautiful.

00:16:57.043 --> 00:16:58.543
Oh, that's so silly.

00:16:58.543 --> 00:17:03.893
And then, of course, later I realized that's, that's wrong, that thinking is wrong, but it was too late.

00:17:03.923 --> 00:17:04.587
I was already in.

00:17:05.097 --> 00:17:08.528
Oh my gosh, like, I love the, the logic that's in there.

00:17:09.327 --> 00:17:21.188
And, like, is it, is it that they started drawing it as kids and then into adulthood that made it possible for them to be drawing it for the children and then, Or, or is it contraband?

00:17:21.188 --> 00:17:23.458
Are they not supposed to be drawing the comics?

00:17:23.647 --> 00:17:25.748
Like, I like that.

00:17:26.548 --> 00:17:27.538
That's really beautiful.

00:17:28.448 --> 00:17:40.718
Yeah, so I started drawing comics really early, but at first it was just like I was cutting out characters from Donald Duck, and then I was just sticking them in a notebook and putting my own like story, speech bubbles.

00:17:41.163 --> 00:17:41.653
I love that.

00:17:42.383 --> 00:17:43.482
So those were my first comics.

00:17:43.482 --> 00:17:45.202
I was probably like 10.

00:17:45.202 --> 00:17:59.133
I remember being obsessed with the idea of the Sunday, the Sunday paper comics, um, and, uh, and I remember like drawing my own comics and delivering them to my parents door.

00:17:59.583 --> 00:18:00.623
Like on Sunday,

00:18:00.623 --> 00:18:01.653
Bless! That's so cute!

00:18:01.673 --> 00:18:03.173
Outside their bedroom.

00:18:04.073 --> 00:18:06.262
Oh my gosh, that's so cute.

00:18:07.192 --> 00:18:13.522
But, um, I would, I would love to know three essentials to your self care as well.

00:18:14.452 --> 00:18:21.303
Right, so number one, and I've learned that the hard way through my every depression episode, and number one is making time for art.

00:18:22.032 --> 00:18:29.722
Because I just can't be happy if, if my main daytime job is too tiring, and then I don't have energy for art, then my, my mood starts going down and down.

00:18:29.722 --> 00:18:35.042
So, so I have to make sure that my energy levels are high enough for a side project as well.

00:18:35.673 --> 00:18:36.682
Gotta feed the soul.

00:18:37.702 --> 00:18:39.383
Yes, yes, 100 percent.

00:18:40.042 --> 00:18:43.432
If I go too long without drawing, I feel like, oh my god, like, what am I living for?

00:18:43.492 --> 00:18:45.532
Like, am I a robot just making money?

00:18:46.232 --> 00:18:49.313
And number two, I have a lot of electric massagers.

00:18:49.792 --> 00:18:52.232
I, like, have a feet massager I use every day.

00:18:52.232 --> 00:18:55.292
I just, it really helps me relax, you know.

00:18:55.313 --> 00:19:02.462
It's like a box beneath my desk and then I put my feet in it and I'm like, oh yeah, this is relaxation time.

00:19:03.042 --> 00:19:06.192
And number three, also very important, is a good social life.

00:19:06.657 --> 00:19:08.008
Because I'm very extroverted.

00:19:08.097 --> 00:19:12.407
I'm like maximum, maximum on the spectrum between introvert and extrovert.

00:19:12.478 --> 00:19:13.557
I'm a maximum extrovert.

00:19:14.298 --> 00:19:18.948
And if I don't hang out socially at least once every two weeks, I notice I start to get sad.

00:19:20.087 --> 00:19:22.617
So going to work doesn't count because of course that's not social.

00:19:22.688 --> 00:19:25.167
It has to be like grabbing a coffee with a friend or something.

00:19:25.307 --> 00:19:40.928
I'm an introvert, so I love, um, also, like, seeing you post on, um, Instagram and stuff and, like, the places that you're going and the things that you're doing and just, just sort of, like, like, watching the extroverts out at play and just being like, oh, wow, I can't do it.

00:19:40.928 --> 00:19:41.355
but I love that they do!

00:19:41.355 --> 00:19:47.847
It's kind of unusual for, um, I do think it's kind of unusual for a comic artist because most of the comic artists are always saying they're introverts.

00:19:48.518 --> 00:19:51.948
I love it, though, because you, you collect all these stories from, like,

00:19:52.188 --> 00:19:52.428
Yes.

00:19:52.688 --> 00:19:56.597
The places you go, the things you do, the people you meet, the interactions that you have with them.

00:19:57.157 --> 00:20:01.678
I love, I love your saucy, comics in My Secret Lesbian Comics.

00:20:02.557 --> 00:20:03.137
Thank you.

00:20:03.167 --> 00:20:03.917
Thank you so much.

00:20:03.917 --> 00:20:04.917
I'm really happy to hear that.

00:20:05.298 --> 00:20:06.438
I'm happy to keep drawing it.

00:20:06.557 --> 00:20:07.988
And I'm happy so many people like it.

00:20:08.347 --> 00:20:10.357
It definitely got bigger than I expected.

00:20:10.357 --> 00:20:15.772
I just I just have this need to document my life, and it's almost like a diary of my existence.

00:20:16.792 --> 00:20:22.722
So I try to primarily focus on like my dating and lesbian issues and, you know, LGBT issues.

00:20:22.732 --> 00:20:27.163
But I would say like every now and then I'll make a comic about something completely different.

00:20:27.692 --> 00:20:30.843
Just because it's more like a diary than a lesbian manifesto.

00:20:32.488 --> 00:20:35.327
What was the driving force behind, like, starting it?

00:20:35.347 --> 00:20:37.048
What made you start drawing it?

00:20:38.048 --> 00:20:43.978
So, actually, it's quite funny, but it's actually because at the time I was working a job that was super chill and I had so much free time.

00:20:44.567 --> 00:20:45.837
It was an admin job, right?

00:20:46.258 --> 00:20:50.887
So I would go to the office every day for like eight hours, but actually there was maybe three or four hours of work.

00:20:51.327 --> 00:20:51.657
Oh, wow.

00:20:51.657 --> 00:20:58.617
And between that, I was just, I would just like, you know, chill and read my Kindle and, and I was like, you know, all that time I wanna do something productive with it.

00:20:58.617 --> 00:21:05.188
So I started bringing my schedule to work and like I made up my new comic avatar and, uh, I started drawing them at that work.

00:21:05.488 --> 00:21:06.298
'cause I had so much time.

00:21:07.038 --> 00:21:07.728
That's awesome.

00:21:07.728 --> 00:21:08.597
I had no idea.

00:21:09.307 --> 00:21:10.748
So it just, it just like happened.

00:21:10.748 --> 00:21:11.317
I love that.

00:21:11.887 --> 00:21:11.978
Yeah.

00:21:11.978 --> 00:21:13.718
Just 'cause I had time and I figured, well, you know what?

00:21:13.768 --> 00:21:16.557
It doesn't feel right to just procrastinate for five hours a day.

00:21:16.657 --> 00:21:20.147
Since I have energy, I, I should just start a comic series.

00:21:21.198 --> 00:21:24.377
Well, it's, it's incredible and I love it so much.

00:21:24.377 --> 00:21:24.557
Thank you.

00:21:24.557 --> 00:21:33.188
I started following like a while ago, I think like, 'cause you, you popped up on my suggested I think, um, I saw something that you had posted.

00:21:33.188 --> 00:21:33.667
Yeah.

00:21:34.147 --> 00:21:36.008
And uh, and I was like, oh, dang.

00:21:36.008 --> 00:21:36.518
Yes.

00:21:36.518 --> 00:21:38.938
Like more, more like queer comic book artists.

00:21:38.938 --> 00:21:39.438
I love it.

00:21:39.458 --> 00:21:40.357
Like, I need this.

00:21:40.363 --> 00:21:43.732
Mm-hmm . The stories you tell, they're so wonderful.

00:21:43.752 --> 00:21:47.883
I get such a beautiful dose of, like, queer joy from reading your comic.

00:21:47.903 --> 00:21:48.643
That is just nice.

00:21:48.992 --> 00:21:51.932
It just, like, feeds my soul in such a wonderful way.

00:21:51.952 --> 00:21:52.532
And they're just

00:21:53.042 --> 00:21:53.222
Thank you.

00:21:53.242 --> 00:21:53.853
Wonderful.

00:21:53.952 --> 00:21:55.792
That's, that's actually intentional as well.

00:21:55.843 --> 00:22:01.252
I try to make most of my comics positive and funny because I've heard a lot of people commenting before.

00:22:01.262 --> 00:22:18.597
Well, maybe not a lot, but a couple of people have commented before that, like, So many LGBT comics are about sadness, and oppression, and you know, depression, and of course those are so great, I read them as well, but I thought, well, in that case, there's probably people who would like to see the other side.

00:22:19.298 --> 00:22:27.893
So I tried to focus on the silly and funny and I exaggerate my character to be more silly and more of a fuckboy, if you will.

00:22:27.972 --> 00:22:28.992
Well, fuckgirl, I suppose.

00:22:30.413 --> 00:22:32.532
But I swear it's exaggerated for comedy.

00:22:32.532 --> 00:22:33.813
I swear I'm not that bad.

00:22:33.813 --> 00:22:38.153
I just have this side of me that I think of as like Johnny Bravo persona.

00:22:39.992 --> 00:22:40.712
I like that a lot.

00:22:40.712 --> 00:22:44.903
But I mostly, I mostly let it out for laughs.

00:22:45.373 --> 00:22:49.952
Like, when I'm obnoxiously hitting on women, it's to make them laugh, it's not to actually try and, yeah.

00:22:50.403 --> 00:22:53.202
So that's, that's also what I draw for my character in the series.

00:22:54.182 --> 00:23:18.893
Something else I love about your comic is, the sense of, just, just like the sapphic, like, Just how fucking fantastic women are, it just comes through so strongly, and just like, the love of women, how, like, how beautiful, like, smart, funny, just like, how many, just, just, just for the love of women, and that comes through, and I love that so much,

00:23:19.928 --> 00:23:20.048
Thank you.

00:23:20.637 --> 00:23:20.948
Yeah.

00:23:21.038 --> 00:23:26.518
I'm actually very happy at the moment because I just started a new job three days ago and my team is mostly women.

00:23:26.518 --> 00:23:29.678
I was like, yes, let's go.

00:23:29.678 --> 00:23:31.208
And they're all like funny and chill.

00:23:31.208 --> 00:23:32.448
I'm like, oh my God, let's go.

00:23:32.577 --> 00:23:33.678
Let's hope it's going to be a good one.

00:23:33.988 --> 00:23:35.518
Congratulations on the new job.

00:23:35.528 --> 00:23:36.157
That's awesome.

00:23:36.407 --> 00:23:36.847
Thank you.

00:23:36.978 --> 00:23:37.428
Thank you.

00:23:38.038 --> 00:23:45.627
Something I just want to, make sure that people are aware My Secret Lesbian Comics, you have a book out on Amazon that people can buy.

00:23:46.117 --> 00:23:50.057
And I wanted to talk about that and I wanted to talk about Patreon, so that people know,

00:23:50.057 --> 00:23:50.657
Thank you.

00:23:50.768 --> 00:23:52.018
How they can support you.

00:23:52.117 --> 00:23:54.637
So when did the book get published or made available?

00:23:55.498 --> 00:24:03.478
Yeah, that was actually during my depressive episode because my last job I had at the beginning of last year, so a year ago, it was soul crushing.

00:24:03.488 --> 00:24:04.907
It was too difficult, too hard.

00:24:05.127 --> 00:24:10.087
And I ended up getting depressed and like rage quitting for suicidal tendencies and stuff, right?

00:24:10.248 --> 00:24:17.397
That's exactly the moment when I realized, well, I'm getting depressed because I'm not making enough art because I'm just so tired from my daytime job.

00:24:19.077 --> 00:24:24.018
So of course, first I had a little rest, but then because I was unemployed for a couple months by choice, right?

00:24:24.617 --> 00:24:27.357
Um, first I had a little rest, but then I figured, you know what?

00:24:27.407 --> 00:24:31.857
There's not going to be a better time to compile my older comics into a comic book.

00:24:32.048 --> 00:24:33.567
Because now I actually have time every day.

00:24:33.567 --> 00:24:34.867
I can be a full time artist.

00:24:35.428 --> 00:24:40.397
And never mind, there's no full time pay, but it's about, you know, it's about satisfaction.

00:24:40.798 --> 00:24:47.268
So I actually released it, yes, during that depressive episode, and since then I've drawn quite a lot of new comics.

00:24:47.278 --> 00:24:51.637
So, uh, book number two will probably be coming out sometime, but I'm not working on it yet.

00:24:51.688 --> 00:24:53.877
Yeah, and then only recently I started a Patreon.

00:24:53.928 --> 00:25:01.042
I only started it in December 2023, uh, because I realized, well, Well, first of all, Webtoon Play is shit.

00:25:01.242 --> 00:25:02.303
It's so, it's so bad.

00:25:02.732 --> 00:25:07.292
I keep getting 1, 000 new Webtoon subscribers every month.

00:25:07.563 --> 00:25:08.363
New subscribers.

00:25:08.363 --> 00:25:12.163
So every month my subscriber count goes up by 1, 000.

00:25:12.163 --> 00:25:17.722
And you would think that would be money bags, but it's actually disgustingly cheap, and there's diminishing returns.

00:25:18.063 --> 00:25:20.893
So the more reviews you get, the less you get paid per view.

00:25:20.893 --> 00:25:22.153
And I'm like, why?

00:25:22.633 --> 00:25:23.762
Why does it have to be like that?

00:25:23.903 --> 00:25:24.482
Oh, jeez.

00:25:24.893 --> 00:25:26.522
So I'll be honest.

00:25:26.522 --> 00:25:29.792
So that was a reason why I was like, you know what, like Webtoon is just shit.

00:25:30.042 --> 00:25:37.222
Um, I, I kind of like, of course I'm not doing it for money, but I want to make some money on it because it takes so much of my life.

00:25:37.762 --> 00:25:39.002
So I started a Patreon.

00:25:39.742 --> 00:25:42.153
Yeah, you deserve to have your work supported as well.

00:25:42.212 --> 00:25:42.633
Thank you.

00:25:43.222 --> 00:25:52.252
Well, also I had a more pure reason because basically I just had some funny comic ideas for really like erotic and naked comics and I figured that's not gonna go on Instagram.

00:25:52.252 --> 00:25:53.323
I'm gonna get banned.

00:25:55.192 --> 00:25:57.113
I'm going to get blocked so fast.

00:25:57.130 --> 00:26:03.299
You had mentioned that in a, strip or something, yeah, that you have spicy stuff available on the Patreon.

00:26:03.319 --> 00:26:07.884
So, so things that were like removed from Webtoon or that you knew you were not going to be able.

00:26:08.035 --> 00:26:09.755
able to share anywhere else.

00:26:09.785 --> 00:26:18.035
And so, like, if we want the, the spicy extras, we can, we can support you on Patreon and get those, those yummy extra comics.

00:26:18.805 --> 00:26:19.305
That's it.

00:26:19.625 --> 00:26:23.815
So, um, the comic strips I draw there, I committed to drawing one extra comic strip a month.

00:26:24.654 --> 00:26:25.855
They're not like pornographic.

00:26:25.914 --> 00:26:27.045
That's, that's not my intention.

00:26:27.055 --> 00:26:32.525
My intention with those is mostly comedy, except, you know, they're naked or it's more about sex than Instagram can take.

00:26:32.619 --> 00:26:40.829
But I am working on 18 plus, uh, one short fantasy, uh, lesbian story, just because I figured, you know what?

00:26:40.859 --> 00:26:41.880
I want to try drawing porn.

00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:42.569
Why not?

00:26:43.109 --> 00:26:44.000
You only live once.

00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:53.869
So, so I'm working on a one shot, you know, one chapter kind of fantasy story, like, um, lesbian girlfriends getting laid.

00:26:53.869 --> 00:26:54.680
I love that.

00:26:55.609 --> 00:26:59.279
And so, so people will be able to find that on, like, the Patreon, yeah?

00:26:59.799 --> 00:27:01.230
Yeah, eventually, eventually, yeah.

00:27:01.230 --> 00:27:05.359
It's still gonna be a long time because, unfortunately, um, as I mentioned, I found a new job.

00:27:05.779 --> 00:27:12.730
So, unfortunately, I'm a full time employee again, which will slow down my porn progress, but I'll try my best.

00:27:12.730 --> 00:27:14.829
Maybe I can do it by the end of this year, hopefully.

00:27:16.089 --> 00:27:17.779
But it will be on Patreon one day.

00:27:18.750 --> 00:27:20.250
Wow, that's awesome.

00:27:20.750 --> 00:27:22.329
Our jobs get in the way of porn.

00:27:22.460 --> 00:27:22.970
I'm sorry.

00:27:23.119 --> 00:27:23.869
I know.

00:27:24.180 --> 00:27:25.150
I wanted to draw porn.

00:27:25.160 --> 00:27:25.890
Like, please.

00:27:25.890 --> 00:27:27.519
Now I gotta make money.

00:27:27.519 --> 00:27:28.279
Oh, my God.

00:27:30.289 --> 00:27:30.910
Oh, my God.

00:27:30.910 --> 00:27:31.680
Capitalism sucks.

00:27:33.630 --> 00:27:34.490
I'm not arguing.

00:27:34.609 --> 00:27:34.890
Yeah.

00:27:36.930 --> 00:27:37.660
Oh, geez.

00:27:38.089 --> 00:27:47.220
So if you're, if you're comfortable shifting focus, I wanted to talk about the other comic that you created, Self-pity Social Club.

00:27:47.220 --> 00:27:50.720
What made you decide to start drawing that, and what is that about?

00:27:51.660 --> 00:27:56.549
I started it before the depressive episode, but I was already headed there, if you will.

00:27:57.039 --> 00:27:59.734
So I was not in a very good headspace, and I figured, you know what?

00:28:00.335 --> 00:28:03.914
I love, I love expressing my feelings for comics.

00:28:03.974 --> 00:28:05.755
I should try that on a negative side.

00:28:06.234 --> 00:28:11.684
But my main series, as I mentioned, I wanted to be like positive and happy and just to make people laugh.

00:28:11.684 --> 00:28:15.835
So I just started a second series called, Self-pity Social Club and it's on the Webtoon as well.

00:28:16.575 --> 00:28:23.105
And funnily enough if I don't advertise it anywhere, uh, it's more of a, like a secret project, but of course today the secret gets revealed.

00:28:24.184 --> 00:28:33.819
So yeah, it doesn't have half as many followers as the main series and it's more of a, it's a really sketchy, really quick, just power my feelings out on the paper.

00:28:34.339 --> 00:28:35.960
Well, straight onto the computer, actually.

00:28:36.380 --> 00:28:47.000
And then I make it very dynamic, very energetic and kinetic just to express my feelings rather than worrying about, you know, getting the anatomy right or, you know, getting the composition right.

00:28:47.000 --> 00:28:49.779
This is purely like an emotional project.

00:28:50.730 --> 00:28:55.089
I love how just pure and gestural it is and your use of color.

00:28:55.119 --> 00:28:57.269
Mm-hmm.

00:28:55.559 --> 00:28:57.759
Hecate: Was just really expressive thank you.

00:28:58.000 --> 00:28:58.359
Gosh.

00:28:58.359 --> 00:29:33.420
The, uh, one, one of the ones that really jumps out to me you really, um, you get across like these kind of like PTSD moments and just like how, how they feel or how they're experienced, like in your mind or in your body, and one of the ones, mm-hmm Really, like, just you visually I just got it across so beautifully was the, um, when you're watching a movie and like a triggering scene comes up and you just like you showed just like that that like dissociative glitch so perfectly and I really related really strongly to that.

00:29:33.789 --> 00:29:34.500
Thank you.

00:29:34.529 --> 00:29:34.819
Thank you.

00:29:34.819 --> 00:29:35.519
That's good to hear.

00:29:35.769 --> 00:29:40.849
Actually, I'm sure at least one or two people commented on that saying they also think that I portrayed it very well.

00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:41.759
It was perfect.

00:29:41.819 --> 00:29:42.089
That's good.

00:29:42.089 --> 00:29:42.500
I was just.

00:29:43.674 --> 00:29:45.365
Yeah, that was super triggering scene.

00:29:45.365 --> 00:29:47.654
It was a child abuse scene in Moon Knight.

00:29:48.224 --> 00:29:49.545
which was a very good TV show.

00:29:49.545 --> 00:29:50.505
Overall, I enjoyed it.

00:29:50.565 --> 00:29:54.035
But then the main character suffered from an abusive mother.

00:29:54.305 --> 00:29:56.224
And I'm like, Oh, that hits too close to home.

00:29:56.924 --> 00:29:57.335
Yeah.

00:29:57.384 --> 00:30:00.775
And then she was like, banging on his door with a belt.

00:30:00.775 --> 00:30:01.164
And I was like,

00:30:02.494 --> 00:30:10.115
Oh, you had, you hauld mentioned belts specifically being a trigger for you as well in another strip.

00:30:10.585 --> 00:30:11.555
Yes, yes.

00:30:11.595 --> 00:30:12.880
Unfortunately, that's the case.

00:30:13.230 --> 00:30:16.880
So I'm fine most of the time, like I don't get triggered much.

00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:23.890
I don't have many triggers, but, uh, belts specifically, yeah, like the sound of the metal part of the belt clunking.

00:30:24.750 --> 00:30:42.170
Yeah, yeah, I've had a situation before, like I'll just explain the situation from the comic, where somebody was undressing behind me, so out of my sight, and I heard that clunk of the metal part, and I just got a PTSD flashback from when my mom, because my mother had a collection of belts.

00:30:42.690 --> 00:30:47.190
On her closet and she would hide them on like inside the closet on a metal bar.

00:30:47.970 --> 00:30:53.849
So whenever she opened that closet, they would jingle and I would know, well, this that's what's gonna happen next.

00:30:53.849 --> 00:31:03.769
Well, so, so the, the expecting of pain is almost worse than the pain itself because I know it's coming and I know there's nothing I can do to stop it.

00:31:03.769 --> 00:31:12.569
So when, uh, when I heard, well, in my adult life, years after when I heard that jingle behind me, I think that was like the first.

00:31:13.619 --> 00:31:16.589
one of the few, but the first PTSD attack I had.

00:31:17.400 --> 00:31:25.980
Although I'm, I'm not qualified to properly like, you know, describe it myself and say whether or not it was a PTSD, but it looks like it.

00:31:26.630 --> 00:31:33.680
But yeah, basically I just froze and I covered in sweat and all the different alarms went off in my head.

00:31:33.710 --> 00:31:40.089
It's like there were 10 cars going off and 10 kettles going off and I just got sweaty for no reason.

00:31:40.089 --> 00:31:41.839
And I couldn't.

00:31:43.404 --> 00:31:45.075
Couldn't make the alarms stop.

00:31:45.884 --> 00:31:47.694
And yeah, that was quite hardcore.

00:31:47.694 --> 00:31:50.565
After that I was like, whoa! Yikes.

00:31:51.734 --> 00:31:56.505
Was that something that happened before you started drawing the comic?

00:31:56.515 --> 00:31:59.414
Or something that happened along the way?

00:31:59.454 --> 00:32:03.164
Yeah, so that was years before, back when I was still in the closet and dating men.

00:32:03.164 --> 00:32:06.144
So, actually, the person taking off the belt was my ex boyfriend.

00:32:06.880 --> 00:32:07.839
But that was years ago.

00:32:08.109 --> 00:32:24.799
For a long time, I just shuffled all my, all my trauma into a closet, and I just did the best to not think about it, and I didn't want to admit that anything's wrong, and it took me, it took me until, like, I was 25 to slowly start realizing and accepting that my childhood was not very good.

00:32:25.474 --> 00:32:28.424
Because of course, children don't have a frame of reference.

00:32:28.855 --> 00:32:30.394
So I just assumed, oh, this is normal.

00:32:30.575 --> 00:32:32.525
Everybody's got home life like this.

00:32:32.805 --> 00:32:33.125
Yeah.

00:32:33.775 --> 00:32:45.474
And even though I moved out of house one month after high school, and I moved all the way to England, I, I didn't, I didn't really connect that to the fact that I'm just running away.

00:32:45.744 --> 00:32:48.974
Even though some of my aunts were like, you know, Monika, it seems like you're just running away.

00:32:49.775 --> 00:32:51.384
And I'm like, no, what are you talking about?

00:32:51.424 --> 00:32:52.184
My life is great.

00:32:54.444 --> 00:32:59.404
But I was just very comfortable being 1000 miles away from my mother and seeing her on my terms.

00:33:00.994 --> 00:33:05.615
So that's also I noticed even then I remember, because I moved right after high school, right?

00:33:06.184 --> 00:33:08.914
And I noticed quite quickly that I don't miss her, ever.

00:33:10.105 --> 00:33:12.444
And I was like, that's that doesn't sound right.

00:33:14.335 --> 00:33:15.115
What's happening there?

00:33:17.035 --> 00:33:28.960
So yeah, but still it took me until like 25 to start realizing that something's even wrong and sometimes like just the comments people say and I'm like, that's Is that how parents act?

00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:37.000
You know, like I'm, there's so many things that where I'm not even aware what normal mother is supposed to act like.

00:33:37.289 --> 00:33:38.720
And it's, it's kind of crazy.

00:33:38.720 --> 00:33:41.660
So if, if I may give an example, right.

00:33:41.660 --> 00:33:44.150
So my grandmother passed away during COVID.

00:33:44.609 --> 00:33:48.329
So I think that was early 2021 and I was in England.

00:33:48.329 --> 00:33:48.900
She was in Poland.

00:33:48.930 --> 00:33:50.369
I couldn't attend the funeral.

00:33:51.744 --> 00:33:53.775
Because, of course, back then we had all the restrictions, right?

00:33:53.775 --> 00:33:55.035
And I wouldn't have made it in time.

00:33:55.835 --> 00:33:56.484
I'm sorry.

00:33:58.035 --> 00:33:58.744
Ah, thank you.

00:33:58.894 --> 00:33:59.345
It's alright.

00:33:59.595 --> 00:34:07.454
So, even though, at that point, I already had cut off my mother, but I think specifically in that moment, she wasn't blocked or anything, right?00:34:08.144 --> 00:34:13.784


Because there's different periods of time when I block her, unblock her, and we share a family chat together, so she can always reach me on the family chat.00:34:14.644 --> 00:34:17.525


Because I just want to be part of the family still, so I'm not quitting that one.00:34:18.855 --> 00:34:25.364


So she could have reached me, but then one of my friends was like, Oh, did your mother like reach out to you about your grandmother dying and you being sad?00:34:25.465 --> 00:34:28.429


Because it's not her mother who died, it's the grandmother on my father's side.00:34:29.900 --> 00:34:31.980


And I was like, no, no, why would she do that?00:34:33.099 --> 00:34:33.989


And I was so confused.00:34:34.010 --> 00:34:35.889


And then my friend was like, what are you talking about?00:34:35.889 --> 00:34:39.139


Of course she should care that you're sad that your grandmother died.00:34:39.139 --> 00:34:40.710


And I'm like, she should?00:34:41.659 --> 00:34:46.170


I like, it just never occurred to me like, oh, is that how people operate?00:34:46.219 --> 00:34:50.090


Like, I'm, I, I'm not a psychiatrist.00:34:50.090 --> 00:34:56.300


I can't really diagnose people, but from what I've read and heard on podcasts, I suspect she's narcissistic.00:34:56.855 --> 00:35:02.804


Because she seems to see herself as the center of the world, and she doesn't care about anybody else's feelings.00:35:03.824 --> 00:35:05.715


And she's very manipulative.00:35:06.505 --> 00:35:11.655


And I have one sister, and when we lived with her as children, she made us compete for her love.00:35:11.804 --> 00:35:18.405


Me and my sister, it's very sad actually, we used to like, really dislike each other, because we were always competing, we were always telling on each other.00:35:19.445 --> 00:35:23.474


Like, I was the so called good daughter, she was the so called bad daughter.00:35:24.614 --> 00:35:30.255


Which, of course, it's fucked up in the first place that my mother would make it so obvious that she prefers one of us.00:35:31.485 --> 00:35:35.405


And even though I was the so called good daughter, I still have so many bad memories.00:35:35.905 --> 00:35:37.434


So yeah, it's quite difficult.00:35:37.525 --> 00:35:46.144


Only after I moved out and I gained some distance, I was able to start having a relationship with my sister and I'm very grateful for that.00:35:46.244 --> 00:35:51.664


And we try to stay in touch now and talk and we hang out every time I go to Poland because I do love my sister.00:35:51.664 --> 00:35:52.635


I want us to be close.00:35:52.815 --> 00:35:55.485


It's just a shame that it took us until our twenties.00:35:56.340 --> 00:35:57.750


To be able to feel that way.00:35:58.500 --> 00:36:15.989


The perspective that we gain as we become adults is just so different, and the relationships that maybe weren't possible when we were younger, become more possible down the line, and I'm so glad that you're able to connect with your sister and have that relationship now.00:36:16.099 --> 00:36:16.449


Yeah.00:36:16.860 --> 00:36:18.739


Yes, I'm really happy.00:36:19.530 --> 00:36:21.760


And also, my sister is still in touch with our mother.00:36:22.099 --> 00:36:23.530


She's kind of, like, restricting it.00:36:24.650 --> 00:36:29.769


Like, she never gives her money because our mother is horrible for using people for money.00:36:29.769 --> 00:36:31.110


She's so selfish.00:36:32.139 --> 00:36:34.690


But still, my sister does want to keep her in her life.00:36:34.690 --> 00:36:40.269


So, she also, like, gives me updates sometimes about, like, the new fucked up shit our mother does.00:36:42.780 --> 00:36:45.260


So, I suppose that's a bonding experience, at least.00:36:45.260 --> 00:36:47.610


Like, we can complain about her together.00:36:48.472 --> 00:36:56.018


The financial thing seemed to be, a very important theme when I was reading your comics strip.00:36:56.733 --> 00:37:04.163


Yes, actually, that's weirdly, her manipulative side is something I'm more traumatized about than the physical abuse.00:37:04.768 --> 00:37:17.847


Because like, she stopped physically abusing me when I was about 15, and I feel like I could have gotten past it, but it's more the emotional and the financial abuse that made me realize, I think she's just a bad person.00:37:18.588 --> 00:37:22.518


Um, which of course took me years to get, get to terms with.00:37:23.077 --> 00:37:25.657


So, she's just so manipulative.00:37:25.717 --> 00:37:32.027


And ever since I cut her off, um, it's Well, I'll get to it later, but there was one big event.00:37:32.157 --> 00:37:33.628


Uh, well, you've read it in the comic.00:37:33.628 --> 00:37:35.117


One big event that made me cut her off.00:37:35.168 --> 00:37:38.427


And, and then, ever since then, it's like she dropped her mask.00:37:38.998 --> 00:37:47.027


So, other people also know that she's messed up, manipulative, lying, stealing, like So now she's like the black sheep of the family.00:37:47.027 --> 00:37:50.677


So at least I'm grateful for the fact that the rest of the family believes me.00:37:51.418 --> 00:37:54.768


Because they can see, like, her mask is gone for some reason.00:37:54.827 --> 00:37:56.998


But yeah, she just keeps using everyone.00:37:57.447 --> 00:38:00.277


She doesn't want to work, but then she wants everybody else to support her.00:38:00.918 --> 00:38:04.228


And she, like, expects it and demands it for no reason.00:38:05.193 --> 00:38:06.833


It's, it's really weird.00:38:06.833 --> 00:38:07.222


Yes.00:38:07.262 --> 00:38:09.443


So I moved out right after high school, right?00:38:10.413 --> 00:38:11.273


I'll get from the beginning.00:38:11.273 --> 00:38:14.342


So I moved out right after high school and I moved to England and I went to college.00:38:14.413 --> 00:38:17.443


So I was studying full time, college first and university.00:38:17.693 --> 00:38:19.862


And I was working on the weekends, minimum wage, McDonald's.00:38:21.137 --> 00:38:23.268


So, you can imagine I was not making a lot of money.00:38:24.777 --> 00:38:29.628


I also had student loans in England, and I was making them weekend money.00:38:30.987 --> 00:38:36.487


Back at the time, I didn't have the comic series, so I wasn't making no money for art.00:38:36.487 --> 00:38:43.358


But still, she got it in her head that because I live in England, I'm rich, and I'm supposed to take care of her financially.00:38:43.768 --> 00:38:45.228


She was working full time.00:38:45.958 --> 00:38:47.128


I don't know how it happened.00:38:48.063 --> 00:38:51.322


First of all, she was receiving child benefit because my parents are divorced.00:38:52.253 --> 00:38:55.682


So she was receiving child benefit for me for like up to 25, yeah?00:38:56.773 --> 00:39:00.572


But at some point she said, oh, it doesn't come anymore because you're abroad.00:39:00.612 --> 00:39:01.373


It doesn't count.00:39:01.722 --> 00:39:02.132


Sorry.00:39:02.632 --> 00:39:04.512


And then months later, I found out that's a lie.00:39:04.932 --> 00:39:08.092


She was still receiving my child benefit and she was just keeping it to herself.00:39:09.353 --> 00:39:13.233


And that's just so mind boggling to me as an adult.00:39:13.262 --> 00:39:20.893


Like, you have a child alone, abroad, working minimum wage two days a week, and you don't want to help them out, and you steal from them?00:39:22.083 --> 00:39:29.793


Because the child support money was legally meant for me, and she just lied that it's not coming to keep it for herself.00:39:31.143 --> 00:39:35.612


Um, so my father was furious when, when he found out, and then he stopped paying it, and yeah.00:39:36.952 --> 00:39:39.882


But still, that was not the point when I cut her off.00:39:39.913 --> 00:39:41.432


I forbear that.00:39:41.813 --> 00:39:47.063


Again, She, she's so manipulative in ways, like she always, she manipulates people's pity.00:39:47.603 --> 00:39:49.452


That's a really big thing in my mother's life.00:39:49.503 --> 00:39:55.382


She always manipulates people like,"Oh, I'm the poorest, I'm the saddest, I'm whatever, my life is so bad".00:39:55.713 --> 00:39:58.253


And she will manipulate your feelings into feeling bad for her.00:39:58.753 --> 00:40:01.913


And she's trying to steer it so that you will offer to buy her stuff.00:40:01.913 --> 00:40:14.322


Which is, Also quite crazy, but yeah, it took me a long time to realize she's using me like that for my money, which I didn't have, and I just, somehow I felt responsible financially for my mother, which is crazy.00:40:14.702 --> 00:40:21.833


She was the one with full time income, and I was the one with Maki's, McDonald's, so Yeah.00:40:22.702 --> 00:40:25.902


Yeah, so I ended up, like, buying her furniture because her bed was bad.00:40:26.032 --> 00:40:31.512


She would like complain to me that "Oh, my vacuum cleaner broke" and I would buy her a new one.00:40:32.193 --> 00:40:39.663


Or whenever I went to visit Poland, her fridge was empty so I would take pity on her and I would cover the groceries for the whole time of my visit.00:40:40.603 --> 00:40:47.413


Until one day my sister told me that actually normally the fridge is full and she just empties it before you come over.00:40:47.552 --> 00:40:50.733


That, that story was like crazy to me.00:40:51.583 --> 00:40:54.202


That was one of the most mind fucking moments of my life.00:40:54.202 --> 00:40:55.543


I was like, what do you mean?00:40:56.253 --> 00:40:58.603


That point was before I started to realize there's something wrong.00:40:59.213 --> 00:40:59.952


So I was like, why?00:41:00.972 --> 00:41:03.163


She's manipulating me into buying her groceries.00:41:04.233 --> 00:41:05.242


I couldn't comprehend it.00:41:05.242 --> 00:41:06.583


It was, it was so crazy.00:41:06.972 --> 00:41:32.818


Well, and all that other stuff, I can see that It would, it would just be this, like, insidious, or you might be able to, like, excuse it more and more in your head, or just be like, well, maybe she doesn't realize, like, how she's acting, or, like, maybe she didn't mean to do that, or maybe she's not aware of it, but, like, removing the groceries from your own fridge in order to trick your child that's visiting into thinking that you don't have food, so that they'll buy you food.00:41:33.632 --> 00:41:40.302


That's like, you are removing groceries from your fridge, like you can't tell me that you don't know what you're doing.00:41:41.532 --> 00:41:49.233


Um, yeah, I imagine maybe she was just like, scheduling it so she would stop buying groceries at a certain point before I visit or something like that.00:41:49.273 --> 00:41:52.322


And it's like, who acts that way?00:41:52.882 --> 00:41:55.273


I like, even not as a family member, but as a host?00:41:55.753 --> 00:41:59.262


If I have like a guest from Poland coming over for a week, I'm going to take them out for a meal.00:41:59.262 --> 00:41:59.322


Yeah.00:41:59.322 --> 00:42:00.538


You can make sure you can feed them.00:42:00.538 --> 00:42:01.088


Yes.00:42:01.088 --> 00:42:02.188


You're right.00:42:02.188 --> 00:42:02.737


Yeah.00:42:03.117 --> 00:42:04.628


I'm gonna be like, what milk do you prefer?00:42:04.628 --> 00:42:05.438


Should I buy soy milk?00:42:05.438 --> 00:42:06.418


Should I buy regular milk?00:42:06.958 --> 00:42:07.588


Do you like coffee?00:42:07.588 --> 00:42:08.197


Do you like tea?00:42:08.538 --> 00:42:11.318


I'll be, I'll be standing on my head to make sure they have everything they want.00:42:12.967 --> 00:42:13.657


Even as a host.00:42:14.188 --> 00:42:15.768


And it's like, why would you go the other way?00:42:15.938 --> 00:42:18.117


And then I told that story to my good aunt.00:42:18.367 --> 00:42:22.838


So in my comic series, she's called Aunt B. So my mother has two sisters.00:42:23.237 --> 00:42:25.188


One of her sisters, Aunt A, she's a cunt.00:42:25.307 --> 00:42:26.137


I cut her off as well.00:42:26.978 --> 00:42:29.807


And then Aunt B is the only good one in the whole family.00:42:30.963 --> 00:42:33.193


There's something wrong with women in that family, they're all fucked up.00:42:33.632 --> 00:42:34.773


Aunt B is the only good one.00:42:34.773 --> 00:42:38.833


And, and we talk about my mother quite a lot, right?00:42:38.833 --> 00:42:40.773


Because, of course, she knows her very well as well.00:42:41.103 --> 00:42:43.123


And she told me some bad stories from her perspective as well.00:42:43.952 --> 00:42:48.932


So I told her that, and she was like,"Oh, but your mother would borrow money from me anytime you came to visit".00:42:50.358 --> 00:42:53.217


for you And I'm like, oh my fucking god.00:42:54.907 --> 00:42:56.347


She was playing us both.00:42:58.297 --> 00:43:00.467


Like, just, and working full time?00:43:02.007 --> 00:43:02.458


Can you imagine?00:43:02.557 --> 00:43:03.677


She's just disgusting.00:43:03.717 --> 00:43:05.027


She's just disgusting.00:43:05.057 --> 00:43:06.297


I just can't understand.00:43:06.907 --> 00:43:10.538


And all the people around her keep helping her out so much, right?00:43:10.538 --> 00:43:12.438


Because she's very close to her sisters and her mother.00:43:13.858 --> 00:43:16.753


And she just bites the hand that feeds her.00:43:17.813 --> 00:43:18.833


I'll give you another example.00:43:18.842 --> 00:43:22.172


So after her mask dropped, right, she quit work.00:43:22.632 --> 00:43:25.193


And she was like, you know, saying she's too depressed to work and whatever.00:43:25.682 --> 00:43:33.402


And then, so her sister, again, the good aunt, Aunt B, she found her a job cleaning houses privately, because that's what my aunt does, yeah?00:43:33.753 --> 00:43:36.713


So she basically helped her get some money.00:43:36.713 --> 00:43:42.148


And then as a repayment, my mother tried to bite her out of a gig.00:43:44.367 --> 00:43:47.657


She was like, Oh, you know, you're going to hire my sister to clean your house.00:43:47.668 --> 00:43:48.318


I'll do it cheaper than her.00:43:48.682 --> 00:43:53.463


Can, can, can you even imagine that?00:43:54.163 --> 00:43:57.202


So that's how she repaid her sister for getting her a job.00:43:58.643 --> 00:44:00.492


That's pretty low.00:44:00.492 --> 00:44:03.273


That's just unthinkable.00:44:03.273 --> 00:44:04.202


I don't understand.00:44:04.463 --> 00:44:09.393


So that's why I think, I'm pretty sure, she thinks she's the center of the law world.00:44:09.813 --> 00:44:11.172


Nobody else's feelings matter.00:44:12.302 --> 00:44:14.063


I just find it hard to comprehend.00:44:14.373 --> 00:44:15.932


How can somebody be that selfish?00:44:17.172 --> 00:44:17.523


It's.00:44:18.668 --> 00:44:33.347


Baffling and painful to, to also just figure out, like, especially when it's a parent and someone who was, you know, like, as, as you find out later in life, it's like, oh, you were supposed to be, the safest person, and00:44:36.168 --> 00:44:36.518


Yes.00:44:37.447 --> 00:44:38.228


And yet,00:44:39.088 --> 00:44:39.827


yes.00:44:40.208 --> 00:44:41.447


I'll tell you another funny story.00:44:41.697 --> 00:44:46.217


So her sister A got cancer, but it's fine.00:44:46.217 --> 00:44:47.748


She's healed now, right?00:44:47.797 --> 00:44:50.507


But a couple years ago she got cancer, unfortunately.00:44:51.248 --> 00:44:54.768


And then my mother said to her, you only got cancer for attention?00:44:58.518 --> 00:44:59.688


What the fuck?00:45:00.197 --> 00:45:00.708


I know, right?00:45:01.907 --> 00:45:02.338


What the fuck?00:45:02.338 --> 00:45:06.597


I just, I just don't comprehend how she's thinking.00:45:06.597 --> 00:45:09.498


It's, it's beyond me.00:45:09.918 --> 00:45:12.208


That's, that's like really.00:45:13.688 --> 00:45:14.597


That's really fascinating.00:45:14.717 --> 00:45:29.427


I was just, um, I was just, doing a thing where I was, like, rehashing a history that I had with somebody in my life that had, like, narcissistic tendencies, and I was talking specifically about, like, pain and illness.00:45:29.702 --> 00:45:42.003


And the way that it's like perceived by others and I was using this person as an example where I had had an experience with them where I had been ill and their first thought was, you're doing it for attention.00:45:42.443 --> 00:45:45.543


And that's like a really interesting parallel, like.00:45:45.702 --> 00:45:58.603


Cause, what I was saying was like, that makes, if that's your assumption right off the bat, is that when somebody's sick, they're doing it for attention, that's the indicator that you are the bad person because that's a shitty assumption.00:45:58.902 --> 00:46:16.913


Now that you tell that story, it also just makes me think like that it just reflects your perspective on the universe, which is like, everything revolves around me if somebody else has something happening that is detracting from my spotlight, um, you know, that,00:46:16.913 --> 00:46:17.492


Oh 100%,00:46:17.512 --> 00:46:33.177


anything interesting, you know, illness or pain being "interesting", like, you know, or a tool of interest, like, if it occurs to someone else, then it is, like, It's just like this completely skewed, perspective.00:46:33.288 --> 00:46:41.297


Yes, there's actually another similar story because I remember a while, while ago, she told me she has brain tumor.00:46:42.387 --> 00:46:49.027


And then, because again, she will, she liked to get people with pity and this and then she never mentioned it again.00:46:49.038 --> 00:46:49.527


And it's.00:46:50.302 --> 00:46:51.172


And it's not a thing.00:46:51.233 --> 00:46:52.643


And I'm like, did she ever have it?00:46:53.193 --> 00:46:55.112


I don't, I don't think she did ever had it.00:46:55.143 --> 00:46:59.083


I think she was lying straight up, just for like the pity points.00:46:59.253 --> 00:47:01.463


She's so obsessed with getting pity from people.00:47:02.362 --> 00:47:05.432


Fake brain tumor is like, next level.00:47:05.612 --> 00:47:06.112


Holy shit.00:47:06.773 --> 00:47:08.782


It's like, why would you even lie about it?00:47:08.782 --> 00:47:12.402


Like, obviously people are going to notice you're not going to operations or anything, like.00:47:13.858 --> 00:47:14.197


What the fuck?00:47:15.257 --> 00:47:15.617


I swear.00:47:15.617 --> 00:47:16.277


Wow.00:47:16.358 --> 00:47:16.708


Wow.00:47:17.268 --> 00:47:17.588


Yeah.00:47:18.097 --> 00:47:24.072


So, talking about speaking Spotlight, that's actually a good segue to go into the main story that made me cut her off.00:47:24.072 --> 00:47:24.557


Yeah.00:47:24.557 --> 00:47:26.737


Because I think part of it was about spotlight as well.00:47:27.498 --> 00:47:29.987


Because she did something horrible on my sister's wedding day.00:47:30.998 --> 00:47:35.248


And part of me believes that was for the Spotlight because she hated not being the main character.00:47:35.597 --> 00:47:38.507


So, my sister got married, right, in 2020.00:47:38.557 --> 00:47:45.827


So at that point, I was fully aware that my mother is manipulative and I don't want to send her money anymore, but I was still trying to save the relationship.00:47:46.688 --> 00:47:48.668


So she called me about two weeks before the wedding, right?00:47:48.708 --> 00:47:49.447


I was still in England.00:47:50.197 --> 00:47:54.418


And she started trying to manipulate me into sending her money for clothes for the wedding.00:47:54.648 --> 00:47:57.617


She was like, "Oh, I have nothing to wear.00:47:57.748 --> 00:47:58.117


Um.00:47:59.197 --> 00:48:02.898


Nothing good that fits me", and I'm like, "well, wear an old dress.00:48:02.898 --> 00:48:08.307


I'm wearing an old dress" and then she was like, "oh, no, no, but I gained weight, nothing fits me anymore".00:48:08.418 --> 00:48:10.608


She wanted me to offer to buy her a dress, basically.00:48:10.668 --> 00:48:11.958


She always does that, right?00:48:12.608 --> 00:48:16.708


Um, but I was, at that point, I was fully aware, so I was not buying it.00:48:16.737 --> 00:48:19.177


I was like, "well, you can borrow a dress from one of your sisters.00:48:20.068 --> 00:48:20.987


I'm going in an old dress".00:48:21.472 --> 00:48:23.682


Why should I give you money for you to have a new dress?00:48:24.242 --> 00:48:25.253


So many solutions.00:48:25.342 --> 00:48:26.213


So many options.00:48:26.532 --> 00:48:27.583


So many options.00:48:27.952 --> 00:48:29.262


Go to a second hand shop.00:48:29.293 --> 00:48:30.182


Buy one for two quid.00:48:31.003 --> 00:48:33.682


And then she was like, "oh no, but I'm the bride's mother.00:48:34.112 --> 00:48:35.543


Everybody will be looking at me".00:48:36.293 --> 00:48:44.047


And I'm like, "no. Everybody will be looking at the bride. And everybody knows you're broke, so they're not gonna hold it against you if you're wearing an old dress".00:48:44.068 --> 00:48:48.927


But also, nobody knows if it's an old dress or not, nobody remembers all the dresses you have.00:48:49.757 --> 00:48:52.157


First of all, that's a, that's a faulty argument to make.00:48:53.427 --> 00:48:55.907


So I refused, and then she kept pushing me.00:48:56.088 --> 00:48:59.887


So I just lost it, and I just told her straight, "Listen, I know what you're doing.00:49:00.257 --> 00:49:01.677


I don't want to be your wallet anymore.00:49:01.697 --> 00:49:03.018


I'm sick of being your sponsor.00:49:03.438 --> 00:49:10.947


I'm trying to save our relationship, but I need you to stop asking me for money because I know you're using me for money and I want to have a good relationship with you.00:49:10.947 --> 00:49:14.728


But if that can happen, then I'm not sending you money anymore".00:49:14.728 --> 00:49:17.007


And she wasn't happy, but she agreed.00:49:17.807 --> 00:49:19.387


So that was two weeks before the wedding, right?00:49:19.387 --> 00:49:25.637


So shortly after I went to Poland and back then, whenever I went to Poland, I stayed at her place because she has a spare room, right?00:49:26.563 --> 00:49:30.472


And my sister already moved out by that point, so that's why she had a spare room.00:49:31.072 --> 00:49:37.882


So the wedding day came, and the wedding spot was only 10 minutes from the house, walking distance, right?00:49:38.853 --> 00:49:41.603


But she was late, first of all, she was late to her daughter's wedding.00:49:41.913 --> 00:49:43.893


So I think, okay, that's a spotlight thing, isn't it?00:49:43.893 --> 00:49:50.592


Yeah, and then, uh, I just avoided her the whole party, because, like I said, at that point, I knew she's toxic, and I'm like, oh, I just don't want to play her games.00:49:50.612 --> 00:49:52.532


So the whole party, like, I avoided her.00:49:52.532 --> 00:49:54.012


It was actually, I got very drunk.00:49:54.012 --> 00:49:54.702


I had a great time.00:49:54.773 --> 00:49:55.572


It was a great wedding.00:49:56.552 --> 00:50:01.092


And then the next morning, I woke up about 10 a. m. So it was already bright out.00:50:02.012 --> 00:50:03.643


Uh, my first ever hangover as well.00:50:05.233 --> 00:50:05.413


Oof.00:50:06.193 --> 00:50:06.672


I survived.00:50:07.842 --> 00:50:14.112


And then the, the way her house is laid out, my guest room was as far away as possible from her bedroom.00:50:14.112 --> 00:50:21.543


So I would normally steer that way, but it's like she left me breadcrumbs for me to follow because she wanted me to go to her room.00:50:22.382 --> 00:50:30.563


So even though it was early, bright out, I go out of the guest room and it's the bathroom and the light is on, and that already switches a red flag in my head.00:50:30.563 --> 00:50:32.228


Like, why is the light on at 10:00 AM It's bright.00:50:33.503 --> 00:50:35.222


And then I, next up is the kitchen.00:50:35.282 --> 00:50:37.112


Again, the light is on, so I go into the kitchen.00:50:37.762 --> 00:50:41.072


And there's sleeping pills spilled all over the counter.00:50:42.572 --> 00:50:46.572


And at that point I'm like, I don't know about this.00:50:46.943 --> 00:50:47.983


Something's not right here.00:50:48.652 --> 00:50:50.523


So the next on my path was the living room.00:50:51.063 --> 00:50:53.322


And she left a suicide letter.00:50:53.842 --> 00:50:57.172


And an empty bottle of vodka on top of it, right?00:50:57.632 --> 00:51:01.163


So she just wrote a short letter, something like, "Oh, I'm sorry, I can't do this anymore".00:51:01.623 --> 00:51:05.072


And she put an empty bottle of vodka, implying that she drank it all with the pills.00:51:06.172 --> 00:51:08.833


Um, so yeah, that was a hard comic.00:51:08.873 --> 00:51:11.583


That's actually quite a recent comic I drew in that series.00:51:12.657 --> 00:51:20.288


And I just froze for, I don't know how long I was like, Oh my God, should I go into her bedroom?00:51:20.288 --> 00:51:20.827


Should I not?00:51:20.927 --> 00:51:23.277


Should I just call the ambulance right away?00:51:24.038 --> 00:51:25.768


But there was some sound coming from her bedroom.00:51:25.768 --> 00:51:27.668


So I thought, well, maybe I should check it out.00:51:27.668 --> 00:51:29.358


I don't want to call the ambulance if nothing happened.00:51:30.318 --> 00:51:37.867


So I went in and again, for the manipulators perspective, there were our childhood movies playing on that TV.00:51:38.347 --> 00:51:42.467


I think that's a manipulative move as well looking back.00:51:43.768 --> 00:52:00.038


And then she was on the bed, like, unconscious and not responding, so I went upstairs to get her mother, my grandmother, and we called the ambulance, and that was a very traumatic day for me, and I was, like, panicking and wailing and freaking out, like, why, why?00:52:01.713 --> 00:52:06.163


Even if she felt that way, I'll admit, selfishly, I thought, why would she do it now when I'm here?00:52:06.842 --> 00:52:08.652


I only visit Poland twice a year.00:52:09.432 --> 00:52:10.902


That's, that's weird timing.00:52:11.873 --> 00:52:17.023


And also why, like, on her daughter's wedding day, so that's, that's why I think that's part of stealing the spotlight, right?00:52:17.463 --> 00:52:19.222


Because suddenly the next day was all about her.00:52:19.242 --> 00:52:21.543


Of course, everybody knew in the family, the ambulance took her.00:52:21.739 --> 00:52:24.958


Her sisters came around and they stayed with me and we were talking about it.00:52:25.268 --> 00:52:27.898


And my mother went to the hospital with her mother.00:52:28.302 --> 00:52:31.362


And so me and her sisters, we were talking, we were trying to figure out, like, what happened?00:52:31.592 --> 00:52:33.061


She seemed quite normal yesterday.00:52:33.061 --> 00:52:33.532


What happened?00:52:34.351 --> 00:52:37.771


And then Aunt A, the mean one, but she's always been mean.00:52:37.791 --> 00:52:39.521


She's, she's a bad person as well.00:52:40.271 --> 00:52:43.621


Even though I was clearly traumatized, because I was the one who found her like that, right?00:52:44.661 --> 00:52:45.242


I couldn't eat.00:52:45.532 --> 00:52:46.952


I couldn't, like, sit straight.00:52:47.021 --> 00:52:47.882


I was just like, fucked up.00:52:49.097 --> 00:52:53.666


And even though I was in that state, she was, she started throwing accusations, saying it's my fault.00:52:55.367 --> 00:52:59.987


And I was like, and then Aunt B, the nice one, she started telling her off, like, shut up.00:53:00.197 --> 00:53:00.976


What are you saying?00:53:01.336 --> 00:53:02.266


What's wrong with you?00:53:02.266 --> 00:53:04.226


That's an awful thing to say to somebody.00:53:04.916 --> 00:53:05.527


Oh, I know, right?00:53:06.047 --> 00:53:07.766


So yeah, so that was quite heavy as well.00:53:07.867 --> 00:53:09.347


And her arguments were weak as well.00:53:09.567 --> 00:53:14.871


Oh, oh, it's because I forgot to mention it's because When the paramedics came and they started shaking her, right?00:53:15.641 --> 00:53:19.681


My mother, she started making those disgusting sounds like she wants to puke, but she can't.00:53:19.681 --> 00:53:24.092


And then the first thing she said was,"it's because my daughters don't love me".00:53:24.842 --> 00:53:30.161


Which again, I think was a deliberate, well, now I think it was deliberate, but in the moment I was like, what the fuck?00:53:31.331 --> 00:53:31.811


Um, because.00:53:32.996 --> 00:53:35.637


It's true, we don't love her, but like, we have good reasons not to love her.00:53:35.757 --> 00:53:36.686


Like, I'm00:53:36.686 --> 00:53:37.476


so sorry.00:53:40.927 --> 00:53:43.847


Like, we're still trying to have a relationship with her and stuff, right?00:53:44.396 --> 00:53:45.376


But it's true, we don't love her.00:53:45.376 --> 00:53:46.106


I'm sorry, but it's true.00:53:46.356 --> 00:53:50.217


So yeah, so that's, that's why my Aunt A was like, "this is all your fault.00:53:50.327 --> 00:53:53.376


It's because you weren't there for her when she was depressed", whatever.00:53:53.836 --> 00:53:56.987


Which, again, it's kind of weird, like, I'm the child.00:53:58.217 --> 00:54:00.117


I shouldn't be my mother's emotional crutch.00:54:00.117 --> 00:54:01.686


I don't even live in the same country.00:54:02.036 --> 00:54:04.246


She has all of you, because my family is big.00:54:04.396 --> 00:54:07.217


She has all the rest of the family with her in Poland.00:54:07.847 --> 00:54:10.606


Meanwhile, I'm in England alone with no one, right?00:54:10.666 --> 00:54:11.766


No family support.00:54:12.347 --> 00:54:14.907


And I'm the one who's responsible for her depression?00:54:15.266 --> 00:54:15.817


Like, please.00:54:16.836 --> 00:54:17.936


So yeah, so that day I decided, you know what?00:54:17.936 --> 00:54:21.547


I think I'm gonna cut off Aunt A.00:54:17.936 --> 00:54:21.547


She's just, she's gone too far.00:54:21.577 --> 00:54:22.157


She's gone too far.00:54:22.226 --> 00:54:26.556


I knew right away, like, oh, this is not the right thing to say to someone who found their mother after a suicide attempt.00:54:27.382 --> 00:54:28.722


And then I couldn't stay in that house anymore.00:54:28.722 --> 00:54:34.231


So I grabbed my things and I stayed with Aunt B, and yeah, it was a hard couple of days.00:54:34.231 --> 00:54:42.362


And then we got like, I think on the next day or two, we got a message from the hospital that they, they did the thing where they took everything out of her stomach, right?00:54:42.391 --> 00:54:45.342


I forgot what the word is and they found no pills.00:54:46.342 --> 00:54:50.762


So she just spilled the pills, drank herself senseless, and called it a day.00:54:51.141 --> 00:54:53.791


I think maybe she wasn't expecting us to actually call the ambulance.00:54:54.492 --> 00:54:57.842


Because clearly she was gonna, well now I know, she would have just woken up.00:54:57.931 --> 00:54:58.742


She was just drunk.00:54:59.461 --> 00:55:01.742


And the pills were just, you know, a manipulation.00:55:02.402 --> 00:55:06.961


So the hospital told us a couple days later there were no pills and she wasn't picking up the phone from anybody.00:55:06.961 --> 00:55:08.552


She wasn't responding to any messages.00:55:09.052 --> 00:55:10.561


At that point, I was like, you know what?00:55:10.561 --> 00:55:12.711


At that point, I realized, okay, she's playing me.00:55:12.731 --> 00:55:17.461


She's just angry with me because I, I said out right that I'm not going to be your sponsor anymore.00:55:17.512 --> 00:55:18.621


I don't want to send you money anymore.00:55:18.972 --> 00:55:20.992


Yeah, you set a healthy boundary.00:55:22.251 --> 00:55:23.262


Imagine that.00:55:24.422 --> 00:55:38.021


And then, of course, as a punishment, or I think maybe not as a punishment, but maybe she was again trying to do an extreme pity bait, I call it, where I'm like, oh, now I feel so bad for you because you're depressed and suicidal.00:55:38.021 --> 00:55:39.331


I'm going to start sending you money again.00:55:40.092 --> 00:55:41.231


I think that was her intention.00:55:41.981 --> 00:55:46.512


But also probably like part of it was stealing spotlight from my sister on her big day.00:55:46.952 --> 00:55:47.342


Yeah.00:55:47.981 --> 00:56:12.617


When I read your comic, I read that timeline and I was so focused on that experience for you, like, finding her and what you went through that I, like, even though you had said, that it was the wedding and you set that up, like, I just didn't even think about the fact that she had done that the day after her other daughter's wedding and, like, what,00:56:12.617 --> 00:56:12.936


Same day, same night.00:56:12.936 --> 00:56:16.956


Just how absolutely wild that is and it's just,00:56:17.836 --> 00:56:18.137


Yes.00:56:19.617 --> 00:56:20.126


It is crazy.00:56:20.126 --> 00:56:21.956


I do think she's crazy for attention.00:56:21.976 --> 00:56:25.237


She does and says crazy things quite a lot.00:56:25.862 --> 00:56:28.342


So basically, my mother was in the hospital for a couple days.00:56:28.411 --> 00:56:29.811


We knew it was a fake suicide.00:56:30.231 --> 00:56:31.891


She wasn't responding to any messages, right?00:56:32.192 --> 00:56:34.222


But she knew what day, I'm flying back to England.00:56:35.391 --> 00:56:36.992


And she texted me like the day before.00:56:38.081 --> 00:56:41.001


And the first thing she texted me was, "Are you feeding the cat?"00:56:42.492 --> 00:56:44.442


Are you, are you feeding the cat?00:56:44.931 --> 00:56:53.282


Yes! I know! I know! I told my cousin, because at the time my cousin was nearby, and my cousin just laughed in an angry way.00:56:53.282 --> 00:56:55.012


He was like, No, tell her it fucking died.00:56:55.382 --> 00:56:57.181


Oh, jeez!00:56:57.461 --> 00:56:58.501


Which of course was not true.00:56:58.552 --> 00:57:01.652


Because her mother lives there, I'm sure her mother was feeding the cat.00:57:01.652 --> 00:57:04.161


But, The point is, why is that the first thing you said?00:57:04.512 --> 00:57:06.061


Oh my god.00:57:06.132 --> 00:57:08.762


Anyway, so, so I told her no.00:57:09.152 --> 00:57:10.711


I couldn't stay in that house anymore.00:57:11.172 --> 00:57:12.072


I'm not there anymore.00:57:12.461 --> 00:57:15.481


And actually, as a side note, I haven't been to that house since then.00:57:15.851 --> 00:57:16.731


Because to me, it's cursed.00:57:16.742 --> 00:57:18.873


I don't want to cross that doorstep anymore.00:57:18.873 --> 00:57:22.021


That's a really traumatic thing to have happened.00:57:22.041 --> 00:57:22.552


Yeah.00:57:23.501 --> 00:57:26.262


So, because of my response, she realized that I'm upset.00:57:26.442 --> 00:57:28.431


Which, I think it's crazy.00:57:28.431 --> 00:57:34.246


I think it shows that she never considered she might have upset me, like, in a sympathetic way.00:57:35.306 --> 00:57:39.927


So she was never going to be sympathetic about me going through the traumatic experience of finding her like that.00:57:40.126 --> 00:57:40.226


Right.00:57:40.306 --> 00:57:41.077


So that's my point.00:57:42.902 --> 00:57:47.271


Because she realized that I'm angry, and I'm traumatized, and I moved out.00:57:48.101 --> 00:57:54.271


Then she started doing the manipulative, manipulation, the usual pity bait, as I call it.00:57:54.661 --> 00:57:57.672


Where she sent me, like, she's done it so many times before.00:57:57.831 --> 00:58:02.722


Once in a while, she would send me this very long chat essay, saying, "Oh, I'm such a bad mother.00:58:02.911 --> 00:58:04.172


I know you deserve better.00:58:04.172 --> 00:58:06.461


You would be happier if you cut me out of your life.00:58:06.992 --> 00:58:08.152


I'm sorry I'm such a burden".00:58:08.161 --> 00:58:10.291


You know, like a really long essay in that.00:58:11.101 --> 00:58:15.472


And she's said a couple times before, well, multiple, to me and to my sister.00:58:15.911 --> 00:58:19.972


And then, of course, I would always do the normal response of like, "No, you're a good mother.00:58:19.972 --> 00:58:20.512


I love you.00:58:20.822 --> 00:58:21.811


Yeah, it's all fine.00:58:22.262 --> 00:58:24.831


Here, have another, um, another hundred pounds", you know.00:58:25.081 --> 00:58:27.211


And so, of course, I kept doing that, except for this time.00:58:28.092 --> 00:58:29.742


I realized she's just, you know, playing me.00:58:29.742 --> 00:58:32.061


She's, I, I decided already I'm cutting her off.00:58:32.672 --> 00:58:34.282


So I said, Yes, I agree with you.00:58:34.757 --> 00:58:38.027


I will be happier without you and I'm, I don't want to hear from you anymore.00:58:39.327 --> 00:58:44.536


And I think it's hilarious in a black humor way that her mask dropped right away.00:58:46.586 --> 00:58:52.726


She just dropped the mask right away, even though a minute ago, she was writing this emotional essay about being a bad mother, right?00:58:53.126 --> 00:58:57.047


As soon as I said it, she was like, "No, you can't do that. I'm depressed. It's not my fault".00:59:00.126 --> 00:59:04.157


So I was like, Oh my God, I can't believe she just dropped the mask instantly.00:59:04.757 --> 00:59:09.197


So all these times she was telling me, "Please cut me out of your life. You will be happier".00:59:09.277 --> 00:59:14.367


She never meant it because at one time I agreed she's she backtracked right away.00:59:14.367 --> 00:59:16.467


She was like, "No, you cannot do that.00:59:16.467 --> 00:59:16.976


It's not my fault.00:59:16.976 --> 00:59:17.692


I'm depressed".00:59:18.922 --> 00:59:21.152


That's not what you're supposed to do when I say that.00:59:21.152 --> 00:59:23.851


Oh, yes.00:59:23.851 --> 00:59:28.101


That was like the final straw that confirmed in my head that she's just manipulative.00:59:28.161 --> 00:59:30.771


Because up to that point, I'll admit, I had some doubt.00:59:30.931 --> 00:59:32.652


I was thinking, okay, maybe she is depressed.00:59:33.211 --> 00:59:35.072


Maybe she was sad at the wedding for some reason.00:59:35.817 --> 00:59:39.876


Maybe I'm being a bad daughter by planning to cut her off after her fake suicide thing.00:59:39.876 --> 00:59:40.097


Yeah.00:59:40.146 --> 00:59:42.016


Maybe she just, she needs my help or whatever.00:59:42.277 --> 00:59:46.048


But the moment that moment when her mask dropped, I was like, okay, that's it.00:59:46.048 --> 00:59:47.097


She's a bad person.00:59:47.777 --> 00:59:48.407


I'm cutting her off.00:59:50.646 --> 00:59:53.476


So yeah, that was, uh, over three years ago.00:59:54.047 --> 01:00:00.996


And like I mentioned, we share our family group chat, but because there's a lot of people there, she usually refrains from writing emotional essays.01:00:01.007 --> 01:00:07.027


Although sometimes she will, sometimes she will be like, "Oh, Monika, please. When you come to Poland, stay with me. I miss you so much".01:00:07.106 --> 01:00:10.306


And then everybody else is like, "Don't. Don't do that".01:00:10.306 --> 01:00:12.836


But yeah, I blocked her privately so she cannot message me privately.01:00:12.856 --> 01:00:17.817


Although, unfortunately, I did have to unblock her a couple times because there was like paperwork for the house or whatever.01:00:18.686 --> 01:00:20.456


So there, there was reason to unblock her.01:00:20.476 --> 01:00:25.226


And the couple of times that I did see her, she still tried to manipulate me so bad.01:00:26.036 --> 01:00:30.867


Uh, like one time we had to meet up like a year later for some legal paperwork stuff.01:00:30.867 --> 01:00:31.117


Right.01:00:31.117 --> 01:00:35.766


So we, I just met her in town, her and my sister, and we went to the lawyer to sign something.01:00:35.817 --> 01:00:39.177


And in the waiting room, she launched her pity bait right away.01:00:39.177 --> 01:00:46.407


She was like, "Oh, don't worry, Monika, about, like, supporting me when I'm old, because as soon as I pay off my debts, I'm gonna kill myself".01:00:46.407 --> 01:00:46.577


Wow!01:00:48.476 --> 01:00:49.867


You know, like, right away.01:00:51.197 --> 01:00:51.847


Wow.01:00:51.847 --> 01:00:52.467


But I know it's a bait.01:00:52.996 --> 01:00:53.806


I know it's a bait.01:00:53.806 --> 01:00:55.697


That was, like, both barrels.01:00:55.726 --> 01:00:56.797


Just, holy shit.01:00:56.797 --> 01:00:57.067


What?01:00:57.067 --> 01:00:57.637


Yes.01:00:57.686 --> 01:01:03.516


And me and my sister were just rolling our eyes, because at that point, we're fully aware she just, she doesn't mean it.01:01:03.516 --> 01:01:05.697


For one thing, she's too narcissistic to kill herself.01:01:05.697 --> 01:01:06.186


She's not.01:01:06.871 --> 01:01:15.952


She's gonna be a ripe old age and then when she's retired she's gonna sue my sister and I for um, like alimony or whatever it is where you have to pay benefits for your parents.01:01:16.001 --> 01:01:16.862


We expect that.01:01:17.492 --> 01:01:18.251


Oh jeez.01:01:19.081 --> 01:01:21.362


So yeah, that's crazy.01:01:22.367 --> 01:01:28.556


There's one more story I want to say, which is more about my sister, but it's okay, I have her permission to talk about it.01:01:29.206 --> 01:01:31.677


So my sister was the assigned bad child, right?01:01:31.746 --> 01:01:35.487


Which I think is also common in narcissistic households, if I'm not mistaken.01:01:35.487 --> 01:01:36.806


Like, you're assigned a scapegoat.01:01:36.887 --> 01:01:38.817


Yeah, like the scapegoat child, yeah.01:01:39.177 --> 01:01:41.036


Yes, yes, so that was my sister.01:01:41.126 --> 01:01:44.387


So it's actually quite funny because my sister and I, we disagree on who had it worse.01:01:45.132 --> 01:01:46.121


I think she had it worse.01:01:46.121 --> 01:01:49.311


She thinks I had it worse, which kind of shows how bad it was.01:01:49.311 --> 01:01:58.161


So there was a point where I was in secondary school and my sister was in primary school where my sister was changing for PE and somebody noticed the marks on her body, right?01:01:58.757 --> 01:02:00.007


Like the belt marks on her back.01:02:00.817 --> 01:02:05.597


So somebody approached like the school psychiatrist and they started a whole case about child abuse.01:02:06.097 --> 01:02:11.646


And we actually had a police case about being taken away from our mother for abuse, right?01:02:11.936 --> 01:02:14.987


So, we spoke to the police separately and all that.01:02:15.146 --> 01:02:21.567


But of course like Poland is a very religious, conservative country, so they were not that forward thinking back then.01:02:21.567 --> 01:02:26.237


So they just told my sister, oh, If you're just behaving better, she's not, she's gonna stop hitting you.01:02:27.086 --> 01:02:27.737


So,01:02:28.507 --> 01:02:28.646


oof01:02:28.867 --> 01:02:29.686


that didn't happen.01:02:29.757 --> 01:02:32.347


Well, I mean, us being taken away didn't happen.01:02:32.356 --> 01:02:33.797


And also, crazy thing.01:02:34.137 --> 01:02:38.710


Even though she had a police case for hitting her, she didn't stop hitting her.01:02:38.710 --> 01:02:40.717


She still beat her after.01:02:41.666 --> 01:02:46.077


Which, for one thing, I, I started to say, I think my mother just has a low IQ.01:02:46.117 --> 01:02:48.577


I think she's just stupid as well as abusive.01:02:49.706 --> 01:02:55.942


Okay, I'm glad you said it because I felt bad, like, being the one to just say it.01:02:55.942 --> 01:02:57.476


No, you can say anything.01:02:57.476 --> 01:03:25.447


And, and also, I do hear, that that's kind of, the fear that is instilled with children who are abused, of it being discovered or it being reported because, if the report doesn't go all the way with the child being removed, then that, that fear of, like, then I'm going to be punished for the trouble of the police involvement or the report existing, and just, like, that being a whole, a whole problem.01:03:25.536 --> 01:03:25.927


Yeah.01:03:25.927 --> 01:03:28.327


And there is one more crazy story about that, right?01:03:28.606 --> 01:03:37.836


So, we lived in, uh, poverty, that was after my parents divorced, we were only raised by my mother, my sister and I, my mother, we lived, the three of us, right?01:03:37.976 --> 01:03:39.717


No father figure.01:03:40.427 --> 01:03:44.286


Well, my father was, you know, visiting and all that, but, anyway, he was separate.01:03:45.086 --> 01:03:50.876


We lived in poverty, we literally got like, like donation food in our fridge.01:03:51.675 --> 01:03:56.945


That was like, free food from European Union fund, whatever, like it had ? Stamp on it, right?01:03:57.896 --> 01:04:17.545


And then, after the police case thing, I think, like, 100 percent just to manipulate my sister into feeling bad, she said to my sister, who was, how old could she have been, she was maybe like 13 at the time, she said to her, Oh, I was going to adopt a third child, but because of you, because you reported me to the police, now I cannot adopt, and it's your fault.01:04:18.385 --> 01:04:19.235


That's fucked up.01:04:19.246 --> 01:04:21.746


Well, first of all, that's fucked up.01:04:21.746 --> 01:04:23.585


Second of all, that cannot even be true.01:04:23.585 --> 01:04:29.416


Because as a single mother, making barely any money, nobody would let her adopt a child.01:04:29.865 --> 01:04:30.936


That's not how adoption works.01:04:30.996 --> 01:04:32.985


That doesn't make any sense.01:04:33.786 --> 01:04:36.126


That was a complete lie, but of course my sister was 13.01:04:36.896 --> 01:04:38.485


Why would she even say something like that?01:04:40.121 --> 01:04:40.746


I, I just,01:04:40.751 --> 01:04:48.405


and, and also like, like even if, even if adopting were possible, it's just a total shift of responsibility.01:04:48.405 --> 01:04:53.565


Mm-hmm.01:04:49.005 --> 01:05:04.221


Hecate: Because like, because you had Like, it's your, it's your responsibility to just sort of like, I love how we skip over the fact that you beat your children and that that's your decision and your fault.01:05:04.981 --> 01:05:07.940


Yes, she's just messed up on so many levels.01:05:08.251 --> 01:05:10.860


That's, that's all the main stories I wanted to get off my chest.01:05:10.900 --> 01:05:11.460


Thank you for listening.01:05:11.460 --> 01:05:12.990


Yeah, no, no, thank you.01:05:13.280 --> 01:05:14.041


Like, thank you.01:05:14.081 --> 01:05:23.490


Hearing all these stories and, just making connections with, the comic strip, that, that I've been reading and, like, it, it adds so much, so much context.01:05:23.541 --> 01:05:33.721


Honestly, that's, that's why I started, the podcast is so that survivors can connect so that we can talk to each other and hear from each other.01:05:33.740 --> 01:05:40.710


Everything helps in terms of of healing, whether it's, you know, like working with professionals, or reading books, or anything like that.01:05:41.201 --> 01:06:24.045


But why I started doing this was I noticed that the conversations that I was having with friends who had shared experiences, whether it was with abuse or sexual assault, and that, connecting with them and hearing somebody else, uh, share an experience that had any similarity with your own and just kind of, uh, sharing with each other because there is just like this, this really important aspect of sharing with other human beings, whether, you know, they're friends or, or, you know, like someone that I connected with, you know, new in the world, like you like to, to hear from another human being and to know that you're not alone and then to, to make connections and say like, "Oh, me too".01:06:24.485 --> 01:06:25.206


Yes.01:06:25.306 --> 01:06:26.536


That's really important.01:06:26.726 --> 01:06:51.956


And I think survivors learn so much from each other and we all just kind of like pool our knowledge and our experiences and help each other process what has happened in our own lives and then heal, and in whatever way is best because healing is so completely unique to each individual person, not just because their, their experiences are unique in their lives.01:06:52.485 --> 01:06:55.295


But because like different things will help different people.01:06:55.295 --> 01:07:01.346


And so like hearing from different people in terms of like what's useful, what's helpful, like what works for you.01:07:02.085 --> 01:07:07.266


And so I, like, that's why I started doing this is just to have the conversations.01:07:07.275 --> 01:07:10.115


So I'm all about conversations.01:07:10.115 --> 01:07:12.251


It's a really great project.01:07:12.331 --> 01:07:14.940


I'm sure your episodes have helped a lot of people.01:07:15.840 --> 01:07:17.550


I especially enjoyed your episode with Obelis.01:07:18.541 --> 01:07:21.050


I was so excited that she said yes.01:07:21.351 --> 01:07:23.320


I'm so excited that you reached out.01:07:23.320 --> 01:07:25.851


Yeah, she's great.01:07:25.931 --> 01:07:26.311


She's great.01:07:26.896 --> 01:07:31.155


Yeah, it's, it's been really exciting too, like, getting to talk to people from other countries.01:07:31.155 --> 01:07:45.255


That's been, like, a relatively new thing, because it started with more, like, people that I knew at first, and then branching out more and more, and getting to connect with people, like, across the world, it's just been a really exciting development, so, yeah.01:07:45.795 --> 01:07:49.155


I want to say on a slightly more, like, selfish note, but I think I'm justified.01:07:49.746 --> 01:07:58.780


Another way that talking about my experiences helps me, It's because other people reassure me that I'm not the crazy one, and, and my mother is a cunt.01:07:59.391 --> 01:07:59.880


That is01:08:00.411 --> 01:08:05.360


Of course at first I wasn't sure, if I'm just like, am I exaggerating?01:08:05.831 --> 01:08:07.251


Is this like a normal childhood?01:08:07.610 --> 01:08:08.161


Should I shut up?01:08:08.820 --> 01:08:10.280


And then I draw those comics.01:08:10.641 --> 01:08:11.791


And then I actually love it.01:08:12.030 --> 01:08:16.801


I know it's kind of sick, but I love it when people comment that, oh, your mother's a cunt, I hate her.01:08:17.881 --> 01:08:20.411


Yeah, no, it's super validating.01:08:21.551 --> 01:08:23.320


Validating, that's the word, yes.01:08:23.320 --> 01:08:31.751


No, it, like, it really does help an immense amount to just be like, yeah, so this happens and have someone else say, "That's really fucked up".01:08:31.751 --> 01:08:33.761


You're like, you're right.01:08:34.051 --> 01:08:34.690


It is.01:08:35.270 --> 01:08:35.690


Thank you.01:08:35.751 --> 01:08:36.230


Yes.01:08:36.845 --> 01:08:37.551


.01:08:36.845 --> 01:08:37.551


Yes, exactly.01:08:39.440 --> 01:08:42.711


Yeah, no, that's like an incredibly important part of it.01:08:43.430 --> 01:08:47.730


, and it, it feels weird, but it is, it, it helps.01:08:47.735 --> 01:08:51.091


Mm-hmm.01:08:47.911 --> 01:08:51.480


Hecate: It helps you put it into Yes.01:08:51.511 --> 01:08:58.261


A part of abuse is just this constant process of them, manipulating how you see them and how you01:08:58.320 --> 01:08:58.411


Yes.01:08:58.411 --> 01:08:58.470


Uh.01:08:59.945 --> 01:09:16.845


Just understand the dynamic and it's really difficult to start to shift that over time to be like that was unacceptable or that was inappropriate or this is a healthy boundary and you constantly question yourself after years and years and years of conditioning.01:09:17.246 --> 01:09:25.095


And so it's really helpful to have that outside perspective of someone say, like, just validate that, like, that was unacceptable.01:09:25.176 --> 01:09:26.695


You deserved better.01:09:26.796 --> 01:09:29.426


Yeah, without that, you're just in your own head.01:09:29.525 --> 01:09:32.305


And you'll be fighting yourself sometimes.01:09:32.365 --> 01:09:34.456


Um, like, I still do it.01:09:34.485 --> 01:09:43.046


It's years since I've exited certain situations with certain people and just every so often I'm like, am I just crazy?01:09:43.115 --> 01:09:44.926


Maybe I, like, you'll still01:09:44.926 --> 01:09:45.565


Am I exaggerating?01:09:45.565 --> 01:09:46.185


-have those moments.01:09:46.475 --> 01:09:47.006


Yeah.01:09:47.046 --> 01:09:47.746


Oh, definitely.01:09:47.746 --> 01:09:48.115


Yeah.01:09:48.376 --> 01:09:49.685


I'm like, am I just being a cunt?01:09:49.695 --> 01:09:50.756


Am I exaggerating?01:09:51.155 --> 01:09:52.246


Yeah, I talked to my mother again?01:09:52.926 --> 01:10:06.485


And then I hear some new story of what she did, and I'm like, okay, she's still, she's still a cunt, she's still a bad person, it's just, now I, because the whole family knows, right, basically that day when I found her, that day was the day when the dam broke.01:10:06.780 --> 01:10:08.551


And I ended up telling everyone everything.01:10:08.650 --> 01:10:10.041


I just couldn't hold it in anymore.01:10:10.850 --> 01:10:14.551


So now everybody knows in the family about like our childhood and how fucked up.01:10:15.451 --> 01:10:18.341


So they just come to me with like new stories of another fucked up thing she done.01:10:18.551 --> 01:10:20.770


I'm like, well, yeah, still a cunt.01:10:20.770 --> 01:10:25.171


You had kind of mentioned that like her mask had dropped more with the family.01:10:25.171 --> 01:10:25.770


Yes.01:10:26.060 --> 01:10:27.820


And was that when that happened?01:10:27.961 --> 01:10:31.411


When you told everybody all this information, she just like.01:10:32.435 --> 01:10:35.836


Like, didn't see a point in it anymore, or like, how do you think?01:10:36.945 --> 01:10:40.636


Yeah, maybe that's it, or maybe it was just the fake suicide thing in general, I'm not sure.01:10:40.636 --> 01:10:43.015


But, like, actually, yeah, the way you put it, that does make sense.01:10:43.225 --> 01:10:46.046


Maybe she knew, maybe she found out that I'm telling people.01:10:46.735 --> 01:10:48.845


But, again, because I don't think she's intelligent.01:10:49.706 --> 01:10:52.565


She just decided to stop bothering with the mask.01:10:52.565 --> 01:11:06.069


She couldn't manipulate the information that everybody had anymore because like controlling what everybody is aware of is like a huge, huge, important part of that.01:11:06.100 --> 01:11:09.390


And if you took away some of that control, maybe that shifted the game.01:11:09.489 --> 01:11:15.109


I suppose maybe it's not just me, but maybe also because the whole family knew that there were no pills in her stomach.01:11:16.199 --> 01:11:17.909


So they all knew it was fake.01:11:18.122 --> 01:11:18.993


That's a game changer.01:11:18.993 --> 01:11:20.342


So she's still, she's still the same.01:11:20.342 --> 01:11:22.432


She still tries to pity bait people.01:11:22.502 --> 01:11:27.002


Once in a while she'll message me on one of her essays if she's not blocked, but now she's blocked again.01:11:27.783 --> 01:11:33.993


And then I just wish she wouldn't be shameless enough to do it publicly on the family chat, or At first I was avoiding all the family reunions, right?01:11:34.283 --> 01:11:35.422


Because I couldn't stand to see her.01:11:35.733 --> 01:11:39.595


But now it's been three years, and I'm like, okay, why should I miss out on great family parties?01:11:39.985 --> 01:11:43.246


If there's gonna be like 30 plus people there, I can just avoid her.01:11:43.685 --> 01:11:46.466


I can just be civil about it and be like,"yes, hello, how are you doing, bye".01:11:46.655 --> 01:11:48.546


You know, like pretend we're neighbors or something.01:11:48.546 --> 01:11:51.786


So I've been trying to do that but still she keeps pulling some weird shit every time.01:11:52.746 --> 01:11:53.345


She's so weird.01:11:53.386 --> 01:12:03.086


So the last time I saw her in person, right, so it was June 2023, and there was this massive family party in the countryside, 50 people, all family.01:12:03.126 --> 01:12:06.565


So like, you know, all the cousins, aunts, drinking, dancing, it was great.01:12:06.605 --> 01:12:09.025


And I figured, yeah, that's enough people, I can easily avoid her.01:12:09.636 --> 01:12:10.676


And then she's so weird.01:12:10.676 --> 01:12:13.765


She just started acting like a paparazzi towards me.01:12:14.065 --> 01:12:16.315


She was following me with her phone like that.01:12:17.345 --> 01:12:19.025


Recording me openly.01:12:20.845 --> 01:12:22.636


So yeah, she doesn't bother pretending anymore.01:12:22.636 --> 01:12:23.497


Like the whole time?01:12:23.497 --> 01:12:24.359


Well, no, no, no.01:12:24.359 --> 01:12:25.865


Not the whole time to be fair.01:12:25.865 --> 01:12:29.065


That was closer to the end and that was maybe like for half an hour.01:12:29.065 --> 01:12:32.501


But still, I realized Because I was dancing on the dance floor, yeah?01:12:32.730 --> 01:12:36.411


And then I realized she's recording, and I thought, Oh, no, I don't want to be in your video, cunt.01:12:36.761 --> 01:12:39.051


So I moved behind the tree.01:12:39.581 --> 01:12:41.890


Because this is happening, like, on the countryside, outside, yeah?01:12:41.890 --> 01:12:43.671


So I moved behind the tree.01:12:43.871 --> 01:12:47.011


And then she moved to have me in the frame again.01:12:47.270 --> 01:12:52.480


And this happened, like, Well, the first time I was like, well, that could be a coincidence, but then she did it two more times.01:12:52.480 --> 01:12:54.051


I was like, okay, she's just taking the piss.01:12:54.591 --> 01:13:01.881


She's specifically targeting me with her camera and well, people, of course, wouldn't care to notice, but it's going to be obvious when she posts that video, which she did.01:13:02.581 --> 01:13:06.088


So I just moved three times and then I was like, oh, I, I don't feel like dancing anymore.01:13:06.149 --> 01:13:06.988


She's ruining it for me.01:13:07.189 --> 01:13:08.328


So I walked away.01:13:08.779 --> 01:13:11.779


I went and I sat by the bonfire and I started talking to people instead.01:13:12.804 --> 01:13:20.573


And she sat opposite me, in the same bonfire, and she kept recording me, just talking to other people, and I was like, okay, she's just01:13:21.394 --> 01:13:26.154


Do you think she was trying to, like, antagonize you, or get you to, like, act out towards her?01:13:26.163 --> 01:13:26.953


Like, that's so weird.01:13:27.543 --> 01:13:34.809


I don't know I think, maybe she was hoping for, like I think she was playing it like, Oh, I miss my daughter so much.01:13:34.809 --> 01:13:35.979


I'm such a good mother.01:13:36.889 --> 01:13:40.849


If I can only see a glimpse of my daughter, I'm gonna make this moment last forever.01:13:40.859 --> 01:13:41.809


Something like that, you know.01:13:42.658 --> 01:13:45.179


Because I miss my daughter so much, because I'm such a good mother.01:13:45.229 --> 01:13:45.779


Something like that.01:13:46.118 --> 01:13:47.219


That's how I see it.01:13:47.219 --> 01:13:48.149


Fucking yikes.01:13:48.198 --> 01:13:54.998


But yeah, that was really stressing me out, because of course I went there, thinking that, well, she's not gonna pull anything off in front of 50 people, surely.01:13:55.601 --> 01:13:58.872


And then she did and I just started sweating like what what's she doing?01:13:58.912 --> 01:13:59.862


What's she gonna do next?01:13:59.902 --> 01:14:01.082


Because that's the thing with crazy people.01:14:01.082 --> 01:14:01.721


I never know.01:14:02.296 --> 01:14:02.936


the next step.01:14:03.636 --> 01:14:06.476


And then the next day, she went missing for a bit.01:14:06.516 --> 01:14:09.976


And my aunt, her sister, was getting nervous that she's going to do it again.01:14:10.377 --> 01:14:14.106


You know, like another suicide attempt, just because I'm there and I wasn't paying attention to her.01:14:15.087 --> 01:14:15.396


Something like that.01:14:15.976 --> 01:14:16.676


But no, it didn't.01:14:16.676 --> 01:14:17.096


It was fine.01:14:17.157 --> 01:14:18.256


She didn't do anything that night.01:14:18.936 --> 01:14:22.992


Jeez Yeah, following you around, recording you.01:14:23.042 --> 01:14:24.542


That was not what I expected.01:14:24.542 --> 01:14:26.101


I don't know what I expected, but that was not it.01:14:26.101 --> 01:14:26.944


What the fuck, like?01:14:27.125 --> 01:14:27.645


That is so odd.01:14:27.662 --> 01:14:29.112


I did not expect that.01:14:29.112 --> 01:14:29.402


No.01:14:29.402 --> 01:14:30.851


I did not expect that.01:14:30.851 --> 01:14:39.442


Because at this point, she stopped trying to talk to me, because she tried that at a previous event, where she was like physically following me, trying to talk to me.01:14:40.381 --> 01:14:45.402


And I was so uncomfortable, I just kept, engaging other people in conversation to be like, oh, please pretend you're busy with me.01:14:45.402 --> 01:14:49.351


So she doesn't have to approach us because of course she doesn't want to talk about it in front of other people, right?01:14:49.391 --> 01:14:50.921


She's looking for a moment where I'm alone.01:14:51.192 --> 01:14:52.492


So I just made sure to not be alone.01:14:53.372 --> 01:14:54.511


But of course that was stressful as well.01:14:54.692 --> 01:14:56.152


That was a family funeral, by the way.01:14:56.341 --> 01:14:57.032


So I had to go.01:14:57.862 --> 01:15:00.141


Well, I wanted to go because I loved the person who passed away.01:15:00.962 --> 01:15:03.202


But eventually she did catch me alone at the end.01:15:03.311 --> 01:15:04.591


And I was like, Oh, please.01:15:05.766 --> 01:15:10.117


First of all, I was angry, like, this is a funeral, can you stop making this about yourself, like, just fuck off, just leave me alone.01:15:10.487 --> 01:15:17.936


But I didn't say it like that, it was like, "oh, please, just unblock me, please, just talk to me, tell me everything I did wrong, I'm gonna be better", whatever.01:15:18.726 --> 01:15:25.426


And then she keeps doing this thing, that's a thing she did a couple times, where she made up a fake reason why I'm not talking to her.01:15:26.226 --> 01:15:34.497


I think maybe to justify it in her head, so she's like, "Oh, Monika, I know you're not talking to her because I wasn't respecting your sexuality, but I changed now, I'm better now'.01:15:34.497 --> 01:15:34.856


Um.01:15:35.436 --> 01:15:40.087


And I'm like, "that's not the reason, and you know it. I'm not talking to you because of the abuse".01:15:41.226 --> 01:15:46.886


And the not accepting of my sexuality is like, yeah, that sucks, but that's like a drop in a lake.01:15:47.716 --> 01:15:51.787


And then I just said it, like, straight up, and she got really silly.01:15:51.867 --> 01:15:55.256


Like, she was feeling very uncomfortable, looking very uncomfortable, and she walked away.01:15:55.457 --> 01:15:59.386


So I think she also has this narrative in her head, where she blames something else.01:16:00.197 --> 01:16:06.367


You know, like, oh, it's not my fault because I was raised in a Catholic country to be homophobic, so it's not my fault I'm homophobic.01:16:07.096 --> 01:16:09.287


Therefore, it's not my fault my daughter's not talking to me.01:16:09.317 --> 01:16:10.667


Maybe it's something like that.01:16:10.667 --> 01:16:12.867


That like, inner narrative.01:16:12.917 --> 01:16:24.591


The story that she tells herself about who she is and how everyone like that's, wow, that's really interesting and just continuously keep shifting away from the fact that you abused your children01:16:25.532 --> 01:16:28.412


Yes! She keeps refusing it.01:16:28.421 --> 01:16:28.832


It's so bad.01:16:29.212 --> 01:16:35.542


And then sometimes my sister tried to tell her that again on the chat because again, my sister is in contact with her, right?01:16:36.417 --> 01:16:39.697


And she will send me a screenshot if something bad happens.01:16:39.976 --> 01:16:41.567


And she, she still keeps denying it.01:16:41.636 --> 01:16:43.947


She's like, I'm sorry you believe that's what happened.01:16:43.957 --> 01:16:44.327


Like.01:16:44.466 --> 01:16:46.037


Oh, classic!01:16:46.037 --> 01:16:47.837


Classic!01:16:48.796 --> 01:16:49.226


Holy shit.01:16:49.226 --> 01:16:50.251


Oh god.01:16:50.251 --> 01:16:51.787


Oh my god.01:16:52.766 --> 01:16:53.197


Crazy.01:16:54.527 --> 01:16:57.327


Oh, like cringe.01:16:57.837 --> 01:16:58.617


Cringe, I know.01:16:58.931 --> 01:16:59.832


Oh, okay.01:16:59.832 --> 01:17:01.402


Now I'm going to let you ask some questions.01:17:02.101 --> 01:17:02.492


Yeah.01:17:02.492 --> 01:17:02.801


No.01:17:02.841 --> 01:17:05.631


And you, you actually, you touched on some things.01:17:05.662 --> 01:17:08.442


I collected some, some questions from some listeners.01:17:08.452 --> 01:17:12.591


So like members of my community and I, I let them know that I was going to be speaking to you.01:17:12.591 --> 01:17:13.671


So I have a couple of01:17:13.671 --> 01:17:14.101


Oh really?01:17:14.341 --> 01:17:15.872


listener questions and, uh,01:17:16.122 --> 01:17:16.881


Oh, that's lovely.01:17:16.881 --> 01:17:18.171


From like your Patreon?01:17:18.777 --> 01:17:21.947


Um, yeah, or like my, my Discord as well.01:17:21.947 --> 01:17:23.067


Like I have a Discord server.01:17:23.067 --> 01:17:34.056


So like there, you know, some listeners in there and we have like a mental health chat and I just kind of said like, Hey, I'm going to be talking to Monika, like, and, you know, here's, here's some of, the things that we're going to be covering.01:17:34.077 --> 01:17:35.537


Does anybody have any questions?01:17:35.567 --> 01:17:37.697


And you've touched on like a couple of them.01:17:38.197 --> 01:17:46.716


One of the questions was from somebody who is starting to navigate this like no contact situation in their own life.01:17:46.747 --> 01:17:56.686


And they were asking, how do you navigate keeping connection with people, specifically in your family, who are still in contact with your mother?01:17:57.277 --> 01:18:04.087


Yes, it was hard at first, but basically I'm a very, well, I don't mean to toot my own horn, but I'm a very like peaceful person.01:18:04.157 --> 01:18:05.567


I don't want to cause drama.01:18:06.287 --> 01:18:13.997


So even from this very beginning, I was like, when I was telling everybody my story, everybody in the family, I was like, well, I'm not expecting you to do anything about it though.01:18:13.997 --> 01:18:16.877


I'm not expecting you to cut her off or to tell her off.01:18:17.636 --> 01:18:19.777


I just want you to understand why I'm not talking to her.01:18:20.237 --> 01:18:27.487


So most people were not, you know, emotionally invested enough to care about the fact that I don't talk to my mother, so they were fine.01:18:27.487 --> 01:18:30.056


They were like, "Oh, yeah, you do you. It's perfectly fine".01:18:30.796 --> 01:18:35.466


Some people did pull the flying monkeys, like, "Oh, but she's your mother, you know, especially the older people".01:18:36.096 --> 01:18:40.487


But then I just ended up telling them again and again, like, it's not even about the past.01:18:41.046 --> 01:18:42.106


It's about the future.01:18:42.396 --> 01:18:47.106


I want to protect my future self from the next trauma that that she would definitely cause me.01:18:48.006 --> 01:18:50.136


Because that's the thing, she's still toxic, she's still bad.01:18:50.596 --> 01:18:53.997


If I let her back into my life, she's going to traumatize me again.01:18:54.716 --> 01:18:55.476


And I've had enough.01:18:55.856 --> 01:18:57.747


So please, don't make me let her back in.01:18:58.466 --> 01:19:00.146


Why do you wish for me to get hurt again?01:19:01.386 --> 01:19:04.096


And eventually, slowly, they mostly got it.01:19:04.266 --> 01:19:04.947


They mostly got it.01:19:05.856 --> 01:19:06.447


Well said.01:19:07.037 --> 01:19:13.056


And that, that actually answers the next question, which was, how do you handle questions from family members about your decision?01:19:13.237 --> 01:19:13.447


Yes.01:19:13.716 --> 01:19:16.146


Yeah, I'm just I've just been honest with most of them.01:19:16.306 --> 01:19:16.596


Yeah.01:19:17.596 --> 01:19:17.846


Yeah.01:19:17.917 --> 01:19:27.407


And then the other one that you kind of touched on a bit with you talking about the reunion and the funeral was, how do you handle family events in general?01:19:27.966 --> 01:19:28.497


Yes.01:19:28.527 --> 01:19:31.296


So the thing is, I only started handling them last year.01:19:31.516 --> 01:19:34.296


So for the two years, first two years, I just cut her off completely.01:19:34.296 --> 01:19:36.087


I just stopped going for Christmas.01:19:36.987 --> 01:19:38.686


You know, any family function, I wasn't there.01:19:38.686 --> 01:19:40.537


I just did everything I could to never meet her.01:19:40.577 --> 01:19:43.697


But then third year, I was ready to start going back.01:19:44.256 --> 01:19:45.877


You know, missing the rest of my family.01:19:46.577 --> 01:19:47.476


So yeah, I did touch upon it.01:19:47.476 --> 01:19:52.747


I just think, well, if it's a big enough group, so I still don't go home for Christmas because there's only like 15 people there.01:19:53.436 --> 01:19:54.087


And it's her house.01:19:54.811 --> 01:20:00.462


So I wouldn't feel comfortable because again, it's the same house and also there's not enough people for me to feel like sheltered.01:20:01.431 --> 01:20:10.381


But if it's, if it's a bigger event with like 30 plus people, then I feel like, okay, she's not bad enough to want to talk about it in front of everyone.01:20:10.452 --> 01:20:16.202


If I just surround myself with people all the time, and I even, I even had a friend with my cousin's wife.01:20:16.252 --> 01:20:17.761


She, she's in another situation.01:20:17.761 --> 01:20:19.981


And at the funeral, I was like, Oh, please.01:20:20.742 --> 01:20:25.011


Get closer to me and make it seem like we're talking, because my mother is looking at me again.01:20:25.692 --> 01:20:29.032


Let's make it seem like we're busy and she cannot approach, like I'm not approachable.01:20:29.198 --> 01:20:30.578


Um, so she played along.01:20:30.588 --> 01:20:33.769


Well, in the end it didn't work, but it worked for most of the time.01:20:33.788 --> 01:20:41.179


And then, yeah, and then I just hope that she's normal enough to not start wailing on top of the tables that I'm ignoring her.01:20:42.128 --> 01:20:42.378


Yeah.01:20:43.139 --> 01:20:57.238


Do you think, having those years of gap before you rejoined, like, family events and things, like, do you think that really helped kind of set the stage for, um, you eventually returning?01:20:57.288 --> 01:21:06.314


Do you think it would have been harder to immediately, like, to not have that time and distance and just like continue and just be like, we're not talking anymore.01:21:07.094 --> 01:21:08.113


I'm still here.01:21:09.123 --> 01:21:09.304


Yes.01:21:09.724 --> 01:21:10.173


Oh, yes.01:21:10.173 --> 01:21:16.564


I think it'll be harder because for one thing, I think if other family members saw us together like a month later, they would assume everything is fine.01:21:17.564 --> 01:21:17.984


Great point.01:21:17.984 --> 01:21:23.958


And they would, they would double down on me to be like, well, if everything's fine, if you're still attending family events, just talk to her.01:21:24.689 --> 01:21:25.139


Really great point.01:21:25.158 --> 01:21:30.149


So, I think that those two years helped people understand that actually Monika is serious.01:21:30.189 --> 01:21:31.969


Actually, she really doesn't want to talk to her.01:21:31.969 --> 01:21:33.948


So from that point of view, I think that was good.01:21:34.038 --> 01:21:36.979


And also, well, from my own mental health, I just couldn't stand looking at her.01:21:37.048 --> 01:21:41.198


So I just preferred to feel lonely and miss out on family parties.01:21:41.889 --> 01:21:45.779


And at that time helped me like put things in order in my head.01:21:46.463 --> 01:21:49.684


And of course, because after the big event I started talking about it.01:21:49.724 --> 01:21:52.203


I talked about it to all my friends, all my family.01:21:52.613 --> 01:21:55.444


And the more I talked about it, the better I felt about it.01:21:55.923 --> 01:21:57.354


I did a bit of therapy as well.01:21:58.573 --> 01:22:01.543


And I think after two years I just gained the strength to go back.01:22:02.474 --> 01:22:13.649


I'm glad you took that time to yourself and, like, just didn't, you know, shove it back in the closet for yourself and just really took the time to process, get some space.01:22:14.099 --> 01:22:21.469


It's incredible that you immediately, like, after that happened, like, made that healthy decision to go no contact for yourself.01:22:22.086 --> 01:22:27.775


To be fair, I have to admit, it's easier for me because I live abroad and the rest of my family is in Poland.01:22:28.216 --> 01:22:31.166


So there is a physical barrier of like, I only visit on my turns.01:22:31.376 --> 01:22:32.466


I'm the one buying flights.01:22:32.555 --> 01:22:34.176


I'm the one deciding where I'm sleeping over.01:22:35.261 --> 01:22:43.270


So whenever I plan to come to Poland, I just reach out to my family members I like, and my friends, and I'm like, Hey, can I sleep at your place between Monday and Tuesday?01:22:44.051 --> 01:22:48.070


And then, and I plan my whole sleeping situation before I even go to Poland.01:22:48.070 --> 01:22:50.621


So I just don't give her a chance to find me.01:22:52.041 --> 01:23:03.990


Which, you know, and there's, there's some advice kind of woven into, into that is if somebody is considering going, no contact is like how much separation can you possibly get for yourself?01:23:03.990 --> 01:23:04.230


Like.01:23:04.626 --> 01:23:21.286


Not, you know, like, not to say that everyone can move to a different country in order to make it happen for themselves, but, how many, like, degrees of, of just separating control and access can you possibly give yourself, like, you know, any, any distance that might make it easier, to kind of like disrupt access.01:23:21.386 --> 01:23:21.815


Yes.01:23:22.225 --> 01:23:28.576


And I personally, of course, I'm no professional, but I would advise people to do what I did and be honest with the rest of the family.01:23:29.515 --> 01:23:30.426


Just don't sugarcoat it.01:23:30.426 --> 01:23:32.485


Just say she's a bad person.01:23:32.536 --> 01:23:33.365


I don't love her.01:23:33.685 --> 01:23:38.676


She brings nothing positive in my life, and she will traumatize me again, so please don't force me to see her.01:23:40.036 --> 01:23:48.666


Yeah, no, and I, I like that you, framed it that way for other people, because I think it does kind of make them think about what they're actually asking.01:23:48.815 --> 01:23:51.206


Like, you're asking me to hurt, to be hurt.01:23:51.765 --> 01:23:55.636


To have more harm caused, you know, to experience more pain.01:23:55.676 --> 01:23:58.886


Like why, if you care about me, why would you ask that?01:23:59.185 --> 01:23:59.555


So01:23:59.706 --> 01:24:00.416


Yes.01:24:00.746 --> 01:24:07.536


What can you tell me about your healing journey or what that's looked like for you moving forward?01:24:08.235 --> 01:24:17.551


So it's, it is pretty hard to me because some were how I have this really strong sense of I cannot let people know I'm weak, therefore I must deal with everything myself.01:24:17.551 --> 01:24:22.490


Even though I know I said now that I'm talking to friends and all that, but for a long part of my life it was like that.01:24:22.511 --> 01:24:31.440


So I think because I was so self sufficient as a child as well, because I had to be, because my mother was not a good parent, now I end up feeling like, oh, I have to deal with my problems myself.01:24:32.171 --> 01:24:38.360


So that ended up backfiring when I had like a really big breakdown and I did also struggle with suicidal thoughts sometimes.01:24:39.095 --> 01:24:43.725


So, it got bad at some points, but my main clutch is my friends.01:24:43.845 --> 01:24:52.355


I'm lucky that I have some really close, long term friends that I can message them like, Oh, I'm feeling so bad right now, can I call you today?01:24:52.655 --> 01:24:54.265


It doesn't have to be now, but can I call you tonight?01:24:54.836 --> 01:24:59.235


I just want to, you know, vent and most of the time they'll agree.01:25:00.006 --> 01:25:02.626


That's been my biggest, biggest clutch, my social life.01:25:03.395 --> 01:25:06.326


And then eventually I did end up doing a bit of therapy.01:25:06.345 --> 01:25:09.405


That was a year ago when I had the depression that made me quit my job.01:25:10.070 --> 01:25:12.860


Then my work paid for like eight therapy sessions online.01:25:12.911 --> 01:25:29.533


So it wasn't like a long therapy But I didn't find it very helpful because she gave me some really good general advice on how to be less strict of myself less of a perfectionist put myself first So for example some really good advice She told me because I do struggle with wanting to be perfect, right?01:25:30.394 --> 01:25:35.904


I feel it comes from the childhood because I had to be the perfect daughter and now I have to be a perfect You know employee or whatever.01:25:36.163 --> 01:25:37.413


But she gave me a really good advice.01:25:37.564 --> 01:25:47.463


She said, Monika, if you imagine like a circle containing all the people, you know, all the people you've ever met, how many people of those do you actually care about?01:25:48.064 --> 01:25:50.463


Only maybe like a small circle inside, right?01:25:50.543 --> 01:25:52.783


People who are like your closest friends and family.01:25:53.203 --> 01:25:54.469


So whenever you think.01:25:55.009 --> 01:25:57.748


About what are people going to say about my decisions?01:25:57.859 --> 01:26:10.229


You should only be concerned with what this group says, not what your boss says, not what your neighbor says, or your acquaintance, like, you know, it doesn't matter if my boss thinks I'm lazy because I just quit the job from one day to another.01:26:10.908 --> 01:26:14.969


It matters that my friend will tell me, okay, your mental health was bad and I'm glad you quit your job.01:26:15.673 --> 01:26:17.673


So that really helped me put things into perspective.01:26:17.713 --> 01:26:21.984


And another really good advice she gave me, which I'm still used to to this day, very commonly.01:26:22.934 --> 01:26:30.804


She gave me a good advice saying, well, if you imagine a school essay, if you score 80 percent on a school essay, you would do a great job.01:26:31.094 --> 01:26:31.944


That's a great mark.01:26:32.863 --> 01:26:35.484


Therefore, you should also apply that to your everyday life.01:26:36.054 --> 01:26:38.623


You don't have to do things 100 percent perfectly.01:26:39.524 --> 01:26:47.453


Whenever you make a mistake and you feel bad about it, just say to yourself, well, actually, I got this like 95 percent wrong, so I have nothing to feel bad about.01:26:48.288 --> 01:26:49.078


This is a passing grade.01:26:49.078 --> 01:26:49.288


I love that.01:26:49.309 --> 01:26:51.958


So I'm actually using that quite a lot.01:26:52.099 --> 01:26:59.399


Yes, because it's true, because I do end up like making one small mistake and then obsessing about it for the rest of the day.01:26:59.759 --> 01:27:04.059


I also have internalized, she helps me realize, I have an internalized bad parent.01:27:04.944 --> 01:27:08.134


Like my mother who repeats the things that my mother used to say to me.01:27:08.724 --> 01:27:09.583


So I do a task.01:27:09.583 --> 01:27:13.764


I make one little mistake and all I can think about is like, "Oh, I'm so stupid.01:27:13.854 --> 01:27:14.673


I'm so worthless.01:27:14.984 --> 01:27:15.913


I'm so lazy.01:27:16.743 --> 01:27:17.123


Whatever.01:27:17.134 --> 01:27:18.564


My boss is going to be angry", you know?01:27:18.804 --> 01:27:23.253


So she helps me understand that as my internal parent speaking, because that's how my mother used to speak to me.01:27:23.753 --> 01:27:25.113


That's how I speak to myself now.01:27:26.163 --> 01:27:32.444


So I've tried, I know it's silly, maybe a little bit cringe, but actually I'll tell you something I haven't said to anyone before.01:27:33.344 --> 01:27:34.654


But it's fine to put it on the podcast.01:27:35.056 --> 01:27:38.207


I've chosen a fictional mother from a series I really like.01:27:38.207 --> 01:27:41.606


And I try to internalize her as a good mother instead.01:27:42.442 --> 01:27:43.721


I love that.01:27:44.502 --> 01:27:51.372


So I know it's silly, but I'm like, so basically I do something bad, I start calling myself names, and then I'm like, no, what would my good mother say?01:27:52.061 --> 01:27:57.112


And then I imagine this wonderful, wonderful character, mother figure, from this TV show.01:27:57.891 --> 01:27:59.662


And I imagine what she would say to me.01:28:00.652 --> 01:28:02.061


And I tell myself those things.01:28:03.082 --> 01:28:06.832


That's, that's such a good idea.01:28:06.912 --> 01:28:19.511


I, I'm, like, I can't even express to you how in love with that, like, mechanism, I am blown away by how perfect that is.01:28:19.862 --> 01:28:23.591


Are you comfortable sharing, like, which, which character it is?01:28:23.631 --> 01:28:26.292


Like, if that's super personal, you don't have to.01:28:26.402 --> 01:28:27.082


That's cringe.01:28:27.082 --> 01:28:34.292


Whoever it is, like, I'm so glad that you did that because that's so incredibly beautiful.01:28:35.162 --> 01:28:35.391


Thank you.01:28:35.952 --> 01:28:45.551


So I think that is also like, uh, my therapist's suggestion, which I was like, yeah, actually, I can just choose a new internal mother because it's my internal life.01:28:46.072 --> 01:28:46.612


Yeah.01:28:46.612 --> 01:28:48.202


I don't have to be mean to myself.01:28:48.202 --> 01:28:49.242


I love that.01:28:49.511 --> 01:29:12.712


I, and I love that you mentioned the, think it was actually during, the pandemic and like during lockdown and just having an incredible amount of just quiet time with myself in my own thoughts that I started recognizing that like the, the negative self talk, like that inner voice and separating when it was an internalized version of somebody else that had.01:29:13.506 --> 01:29:39.136


Like put negative things and I had taken over and I started just doing their job for them and for me, rather than like a bad parent I identified it as like my internalized mean girl where I had like mean girls from school and I just have inner mean girls now in my head telling me shitty things about myself and and every so often something that works for me is when they're, you know, telling me something.01:29:39.146 --> 01:29:59.356


You know, just like "You're a piece of shit and like no one likes you" and blah blah blah like, "Shut the fuck up" and and like to actually name them and just be like "Shut the fuck up Krysta" and to just like to actually just like say their name and just be like I know who that is and I don't appreciate it and like mm mm.01:30:00.207 --> 01:30:01.037


Wow.01:30:01.207 --> 01:30:01.917


That's really impressive.01:30:01.917 --> 01:30:02.726


That's really meta.01:30:02.726 --> 01:30:05.466


It's like, specifically naming the voices in your head.01:30:05.676 --> 01:30:06.886


I'm sorry I laughed because it's funny.01:30:06.886 --> 01:30:12.726


No, it's funny and it feels funny when I do it too, which isn't a bad thing so that I'm able to laugh about it.01:30:12.737 --> 01:30:23.136


Like, cause otherwise something else that I was doing was I was also starting to, trying to bully myself into being nice in my own head where I was like, "Why are you talking so shitty to yourself?01:30:23.356 --> 01:30:38.152


You should be more positive." And like and and was like feeling like a failure and i'm just like this is a really vicious cycle and it is not helpful and just being instead just you know, like, noticing when it's happening and just being like, yo, like, "Shut the fuck up, Jessica".01:30:38.192 --> 01:30:39.421


Like, I don't appreciate it.01:30:39.421 --> 01:30:39.752


Fuck off.01:30:39.912 --> 01:30:40.902


So funny.01:30:41.771 --> 01:30:42.492


Oh my god.01:30:43.231 --> 01:30:46.282


Isn't it crazy how complex human psyche is?01:30:47.032 --> 01:30:49.061


Why do we have internal voices?01:30:49.377 --> 01:30:51.587


What a wild ride being a human being.01:30:51.587 --> 01:30:53.171


Exactly.01:30:53.171 --> 01:30:54.756


Exactly.01:30:54.756 --> 01:30:56.476


But I'm glad that you found a way to deal with it.01:30:56.907 --> 01:30:57.766


That's a really funny way.01:30:58.046 --> 01:31:00.417


Yeah, no, and thank you so much for sharing yours.01:31:00.417 --> 01:31:02.487


Like, this is the stuff.01:31:02.487 --> 01:31:03.247


Like, I love this.01:31:03.266 --> 01:31:05.516


This is why I love these conversations.01:31:06.127 --> 01:31:07.106


Oh my gosh.01:31:07.106 --> 01:31:09.216


Yes, I'm really grateful to the therapist.01:31:09.256 --> 01:31:13.186


That was a good match, and even though we only had eight sessions because I didn't need anymore.01:31:14.091 --> 01:31:26.902


I just cried to her for one or two, and then she focused on giving me advice like that, like objective advice you could give to anybody, and I was like, holy shit, that's, that's like 300 IQ, that's so smart, like01:31:27.582 --> 01:31:31.671


And it works, like I, I love the visual that she gave you with the circles as well.01:31:31.981 --> 01:31:32.601


Yes.01:31:33.101 --> 01:31:33.582


That's really helpful.01:31:33.631 --> 01:31:33.942


It's true.01:31:33.942 --> 01:31:39.631


Like, why, why should you care what your boss thinks about you when you're probably not gonna speak to them in five years?01:31:40.731 --> 01:31:44.561


Like your boss truly gives a shit about you, like, let's not do this.01:31:45.412 --> 01:31:45.782


Yeah.01:31:46.002 --> 01:31:50.921


To care more about what your beloved people think about you, and they would be on your side.01:31:51.641 --> 01:31:54.332


And, and if they're not, why is that?01:31:54.752 --> 01:31:56.917


Do they deserve to be in the circle?01:31:56.936 --> 01:31:57.356


Like,01:31:57.667 --> 01:31:57.926


Yes.01:31:58.277 --> 01:31:58.756


You know.01:31:59.487 --> 01:32:00.917


Yes, absolutely.01:32:01.506 --> 01:32:02.787


I admit I've been lucky.01:32:02.787 --> 01:32:06.997


Um, perhaps because I'm extroverted, but I've been lucky in the friendship department.01:32:06.997 --> 01:32:08.457


I have so many wonderful friends who.01:32:09.056 --> 01:32:09.792


Helped me through a lot.01:32:10.042 --> 01:32:13.032


And now whenever I visit Poland, I stay with them and it's great.01:32:13.162 --> 01:32:14.601


I'm very, I'm very grateful.01:32:14.782 --> 01:32:21.742


I'm so glad that you have friends and especially like going through depression and struggling with like suicidal issues.01:32:21.742 --> 01:32:27.801


Like, I'm so glad that you have like a nice group of supportive friends that you can turn to.01:32:28.011 --> 01:32:32.322


Um, cause that, that can be really hard and not everybody has that.01:32:32.372 --> 01:32:33.551


So that's, I'm.01:32:34.011 --> 01:32:35.822


So incredibly glad that you do.01:32:36.612 --> 01:32:36.962


Thank you.01:32:38.551 --> 01:32:43.841


Can I ask, is there, something that got you through the struggle with, with suicidality?01:32:43.841 --> 01:32:53.082


Well, that was quite a strong struggle and sometimes it still is, but the main thing that stops me from doing it is, again, my friends.01:32:53.101 --> 01:32:58.122


Because I think, well, they love me so much, I don't want to hurt them like that.01:32:59.131 --> 01:33:05.122


And one of my friends, especially one of my closest friends, she already lost my close friend, not to suicide, but to sickness.01:33:05.452 --> 01:33:08.542


And she's so, of course, she was so traumatized by it.01:33:08.631 --> 01:33:13.431


So I'm thinking, well, am I really going to put her through it again, selfishly?01:33:14.292 --> 01:33:22.091


So yeah, whenever I think about it, I'm, I'm thinking, well, I should not do that to my friends.01:33:22.412 --> 01:33:24.992


There are people who care about me and I don't want to hurt them in that way.01:33:25.542 --> 01:33:30.612


Another thing to worth mentioning is that well, that's another thing that the therapy helped me realize, but.01:33:31.311 --> 01:33:35.921


I should not let myself get carried away with the feelings of the moment, because the feelings always pass.01:33:36.431 --> 01:33:43.021


So even though I might feel suicidal right now, like before, it would feel like, yes, I'm the, this is so bad, I should do it.01:33:43.551 --> 01:33:47.271


But now I understand, no, tomorrow I'm going to feel differently.01:33:48.386 --> 01:33:50.707


Tomorrow I'm going to wonder why, what was I having those thoughts?01:33:50.896 --> 01:33:55.466


Like this is just like a moment of weakness and most of the time I'm happy.01:33:56.146 --> 01:34:01.337


Most of the time I'm a positive, extroverted, friendly person and quite happy with my life.01:34:01.337 --> 01:34:06.601


So now I understand that just because I feel bad right now, it's not going to last.01:34:07.051 --> 01:34:12.912


So I just have to wait it out, and tomorrow will be a new day, and I will be glad that I didn't do it.01:34:13.692 --> 01:34:24.122


That's been my experience as well, and I had a very, very, very dark time in my life when I was younger and was institutionalized very briefly.01:34:24.692 --> 01:34:47.737


But, after climbing out of that, every successive, um, Like dip or like depression that I'll fall into it gets just a little bit, not, not that it's not dark every time it happens and not that it's not excruciating every time it happens, but it does get just a little bit easier.01:34:48.631 --> 01:35:01.551


To climb out of that hole every time, and there is just that little bit of faith or knowledge, just having those experiences and knowing that, like, I know how to get out of this hole.01:35:01.652 --> 01:35:03.542


It's possible to get out of this hole.01:35:03.881 --> 01:35:09.662


This is not forever, and I know that I have done it before, and I'm gonna do it again.01:35:10.202 --> 01:35:12.771


And I'm probably going to have to do it again.01:35:13.301 --> 01:35:13.582


But,01:35:13.731 --> 01:35:14.192


Yes.01:35:14.761 --> 01:35:16.131


It's part of life unfortunately.01:35:16.442 --> 01:35:26.032


Yeah, especially like for, for those of us who, you know, have abuse in the past that are healing from trauma, like it is a very common thing to struggle with.01:35:26.221 --> 01:35:27.931


And thank you for talking about it.01:35:27.931 --> 01:35:30.082


I know that it's heavy shit.01:35:30.341 --> 01:35:31.061


Absolutely.01:35:31.381 --> 01:35:44.542


Thank you for putting me on the path to speak about the advice that my therapist gave me because I would probably kick myself in the back if I didn't say it because I think that's such a good advice and I hope somebody listening will implement one of those techniques.01:35:44.891 --> 01:35:45.912


I hope so too.01:35:45.981 --> 01:35:50.921


Like, like when you said that about like the, the, the mother, like the good mother.01:35:52.171 --> 01:36:10.242


I'm so excited for people to, to hear that so that they can, like, I'm like, I'm thrilled, like, and so excited for people to be able to, like, go out there and, and look and choose their good mom, or, you know, their good dad, or whoever, whoever they need in their life.01:36:10.462 --> 01:36:15.332


Yes, and it's all fantasy, so it doesn't even have to be a character who's older, old enough to be a mother.01:36:15.896 --> 01:36:22.577


Just choose any fictional character who's kind and sweet and a good friend and a good person and imagine what they would say to you.01:36:22.846 --> 01:36:24.796


Yeah, I love that.01:36:25.083 --> 01:36:26.474


That's so freaking beautiful.01:36:26.753 --> 01:36:27.253


Thank you.01:36:27.304 --> 01:36:32.154


I know that you just changed so many people's lives like with just that advice.01:36:32.154 --> 01:36:33.113


Like that's so good.01:36:34.333 --> 01:36:34.844


That would be great.01:36:34.904 --> 01:36:35.753


That would be great.01:36:36.533 --> 01:36:40.974


And before we finish, if I can just have one, one funny comment.01:36:41.173 --> 01:36:50.514


Um, if this podcast is going to make anyone go and read my second series, Self-pity Social Club, please feel free to call my mother names.01:36:50.554 --> 01:36:52.319


I'm always happy to read those comments.01:36:52.319 --> 01:36:54.413


The comments are open.01:36:54.413 --> 01:36:54.703


Yeah.01:36:55.163 --> 01:36:55.673


Nice.01:36:55.724 --> 01:36:56.014


Yes.01:36:57.599 --> 01:36:59.488


I go back and check new comments every once in a while.01:37:01.418 --> 01:37:06.219


So I wanted to ask what role creativity plays in your healing and in your life?01:37:06.488 --> 01:37:10.958


I think I would've been a comic artist regardless of my abuse.01:37:10.958 --> 01:37:12.158


So that's not a big thing.01:37:12.158 --> 01:37:19.088


However, that second series I started has been very helpful in me putting it to paper and then crying about it.01:37:19.088 --> 01:37:23.319


And then I put some sad music in the background and it helps me work through it.01:37:23.939 --> 01:37:30.208


So, after a lot of the episodes I drew, I, I often ended up like, ended up like crying, but it was like a good cry.01:37:30.908 --> 01:37:41.988


And then, um, it's also been helpful because when I put it that way in a comic, and then I sent it to my closest friends or my sister, and now it's easier for them to understand what I'm going through.01:37:43.029 --> 01:37:48.889


And so it's easier for them to give me, you know, good advice, or respond the correct way.01:37:49.298 --> 01:37:51.309


So I think that's quite helpful, personally.01:37:52.099 --> 01:37:57.458


I'm really glad that you've been processing it and expressing it in that way, that it's helping you communicate.01:37:57.458 --> 01:38:02.559


And it's really beautiful that you've been sharing it with other people as well.01:38:02.708 --> 01:38:02.798


And01:38:02.798 --> 01:38:03.578


Thank you.01:38:03.578 --> 01:38:09.599


I want to ask, what have you struggled with the most in your healing or what has been the most challenging for you?01:38:11.408 --> 01:38:12.498


Suicidal ideas.01:38:12.498 --> 01:38:14.288


I, I've always been suicidal.01:38:14.576 --> 01:38:20.006


I'm not sure exactly why, I think it's probably from, you know, that internalized bad parent always telling me bad stuff.01:38:20.788 --> 01:38:29.769


For a long time I had this strong voice inside of me telling me that I'm pathetic, and that I'm embarrassing myself by staying alive.01:38:31.708 --> 01:38:33.198


And that's why I should kill myself.01:38:33.849 --> 01:38:35.229


So that's probably the hardest bit.01:38:36.779 --> 01:38:42.448


But, I talked to my friends about it, and it's been better.01:38:43.349 --> 01:38:48.969


For me, I think it was around second grade that I first started becoming suicidal.01:38:49.658 --> 01:39:20.069


And something that was helpful for me to kind of think was, it's not always necessarily about a desire for death, but, a deep desire for change, um, that just has no, that is just so, so massive, especially since coming from childhood, that it just, it had no other context, that it's a desire for, for change or transformation sometimes, you know, and, um, I want to check in.01:39:20.663 --> 01:39:21.503


How are you doing?01:39:22.934 --> 01:39:23.873


Sorry, I'm gonna blow my nose.01:39:24.863 --> 01:39:25.264


Yeah, it's fine.01:39:25.873 --> 01:39:28.077


You don't have to cut out that part of crying.01:39:28.077 --> 01:39:29.015


I think that's good.01:39:29.015 --> 01:39:30.873


No, it's, it's, it's entirely up to you.01:39:30.873 --> 01:39:35.463


And if you, if we want to just, like, take a second to, like, move around, that can really help.01:39:38.354 --> 01:39:38.734


Okay.01:39:39.533 --> 01:39:39.594


Okay.01:39:40.944 --> 01:39:43.073


Yeah, sorry, that, um, that one bit just, you know.01:39:44.264 --> 01:39:56.823


You don't have, you don't have to be sorry, and like, thank you, thank you for talking about this stuff, and if you, if you want me to, to cut out crying, like, like, I, I generally cut out the check ins, because they're personal.01:39:57.274 --> 01:40:04.269


No, I think, I think it's better to leave it in, because Because it's honest, and I, I, just like, I want my art to be honest.01:40:04.668 --> 01:40:06.158


I want this interview to be honest.01:40:06.588 --> 01:40:14.969


Yeah, and it's honestly, like, I tend to figure, like, there are these moments that, like, the person listening might be crying as well.01:40:15.168 --> 01:40:22.719


Like, I, like, it's, it's all really heavy stuff, and I just really appreciate, like, you coming here and talking about heavy shit.01:40:23.734 --> 01:40:24.064


Thank you.01:40:24.064 --> 01:40:24.423


Thank you.01:40:24.663 --> 01:40:25.354


Thank you for having me.01:40:25.684 --> 01:40:28.613


Are you, are you comfortable if I ask a couple more questions?01:40:28.823 --> 01:40:28.884


Yeah.01:40:28.963 --> 01:40:32.083


So I wanted to ask where have you found strength and support?01:40:32.783 --> 01:40:33.463


Mostly my friends.01:40:33.564 --> 01:40:36.158


Mm-hmm.01:40:34.243 --> 01:40:36.158


Monika: Mostly my friends, definitely.01:40:36.819 --> 01:40:38.439


I do have some close family members.01:40:39.309 --> 01:40:46.668


I am close with my sister, but I think my friends have been there for me for a long time and I trust them so deeply and they care about my wellbeing.01:40:47.418 --> 01:40:48.219


Queer joy?01:40:48.569 --> 01:40:52.198


Where do you find queer joy and what is that to you?01:40:53.599 --> 01:41:04.298


Oh my god, I love going, because I'm outgoing and clubbing and stuff, I love going to clubs I love seeing all those like very happy, very colorful people just who just want to lift each other up.01:41:04.328 --> 01:41:06.139


It's so, so nice.01:41:06.139 --> 01:41:08.448


For example, I just, like I mentioned, I just started a new job.01:41:08.618 --> 01:41:09.929


So I'm just meeting new people there.01:41:09.929 --> 01:41:13.639


And there's this one man, uh, who's, I would say he's queer coded.01:41:13.639 --> 01:41:16.889


I don't know for sure he's queer, but he's queer presenting if you will.01:41:17.509 --> 01:41:19.368


And he's just walking sunshine.01:41:19.368 --> 01:41:21.868


He just walks around like,"Hey, how are you doing?01:41:22.149 --> 01:41:23.076


How are you doing today?01:41:23.076 --> 01:41:24.207


Oh my God.01:41:24.207 --> 01:41:24.962


You're new.01:41:24.962 --> 01:41:26.471


I love your necklace".01:41:26.471 --> 01:41:26.849


Yeah.01:41:26.849 --> 01:41:27.588


I'm like, Oh my God.01:41:27.588 --> 01:41:27.859


Yes.01:41:27.868 --> 01:41:28.738


Thank you for approaching me.01:41:31.088 --> 01:41:31.719


He's so happy.01:41:31.719 --> 01:41:34.208


I, I hope I, um, I hope I meet him many more times.01:41:34.208 --> 01:41:41.719


So I just find like queer people are more honest because we tend to be more aware of all those issues like this.01:41:42.378 --> 01:41:49.788


And so queer people tend to be kinder and more patient because a lot of us have walked through pain.01:41:50.618 --> 01:41:52.979


So I think that's also really helpful.01:41:52.979 --> 01:41:56.158


And because whenever I meet a queer person, I know, I know I'm safe.01:41:56.158 --> 01:41:58.189


I know they're going to understand me most of the time.01:41:58.189 --> 01:42:00.689


And yeah, that's, I'm really happy.01:42:00.689 --> 01:42:02.168


There's a big community where I live.01:42:02.918 --> 01:42:04.429


That was really beautifully said.01:42:05.319 --> 01:42:05.899


I just like,01:42:05.899 --> 01:42:06.418


Thank you.01:42:07.389 --> 01:42:11.798


Oh, how do you handle dates where they know about your comic?01:42:12.859 --> 01:42:22.548


Oh my god, that's a funny question actually, because, um, well on one hand it's a bit awkward because if they read all of it then they know about me much more than I do, I know about them.01:42:22.559 --> 01:42:26.189


So it's almost like a parasocial relationship except we're actually having a date, right?01:42:26.889 --> 01:42:28.599


I think it only happened like once or twice.01:42:28.599 --> 01:42:30.814


Where I've, like, a fan recognized me on Tinder.01:42:30.814 --> 01:42:41.279


That was quite uplifting, actually, because my Tinder radius is so small, only 10 miles, and we matched, and she was like, Oh my god, I love your comics! I was like, yo, what the fuck?01:42:41.279 --> 01:42:46.078


But the funny thing is that I was expecting more women to be like, Oh, don't put me in your comic.01:42:46.439 --> 01:42:46.628


I don't like that.01:42:47.569 --> 01:42:50.139


But actually, most women are like, Am I in your next comic?01:42:51.219 --> 01:42:52.429


Is there a comic about me coming?01:42:53.109 --> 01:42:55.429


Even though they're all anonymous, they want to be in the comics.01:42:55.429 --> 01:42:56.118


So that's quite funny.01:42:56.639 --> 01:42:57.248


I love that.01:42:58.288 --> 01:42:59.349


I love that, right?01:42:59.918 --> 01:43:03.019


And I take care to always make it anonymous, always change the names.01:43:03.189 --> 01:43:03.819


But still.01:43:04.418 --> 01:43:08.208


Then I will finish the comic and I will send it to her first and say, Oh, this is you, by the way.01:43:11.019 --> 01:43:12.399


In case you missed that update.01:43:12.488 --> 01:43:15.109


Because I don't expect them to follow my Instagram religiously or anything.01:43:15.109 --> 01:43:16.878


So yeah, I just send it to them and they find it funny.01:43:16.878 --> 01:43:18.578


So that's, that's really positive actually.01:43:19.469 --> 01:43:20.189


I love that.01:43:20.189 --> 01:43:30.069


Cause I, like, I remember, one of the ones that sticks out is, the one that you wrote about, like, um, someone's like taking off their shirt and there was like a head bonk and they were like, is this going to be a comic?01:43:32.279 --> 01:43:33.668


It was so freaking cute.01:43:34.889 --> 01:43:36.429


That did happen, that did happen for sure.01:43:36.429 --> 01:43:38.139


That was actually the woman who recognized me on Tinder.01:43:39.519 --> 01:43:40.038


It was the same woman.01:43:41.208 --> 01:43:41.588


Oh.01:43:43.418 --> 01:43:44.078


I love that.01:43:44.729 --> 01:43:48.484


Do you have anything to say to the survivors who are listening?01:43:49.293 --> 01:43:54.384


Yes, I would say, please write down the great advice that my therapist gave me.01:43:54.654 --> 01:43:56.444


Because it will apply to most of us.01:43:57.434 --> 01:43:59.453


And please find a nice fictional mom.01:43:59.753 --> 01:44:00.304


You can do it.01:44:01.113 --> 01:44:09.033


And don't give up, like, even though, even though you might be feeling down today, you might not be feeling the same in the future.01:44:09.323 --> 01:44:09.873


You will not.01:44:10.384 --> 01:44:14.453


The feelings pass and we should not let feelings dictate extreme actions like suicide.01:44:15.039 --> 01:44:16.090


Thank you so much.01:44:16.539 --> 01:44:18.600


Like, thank you so, so much.01:44:18.670 --> 01:44:19.479


Thank you so much.01:44:19.479 --> 01:44:20.289


I have a great time.01:44:20.289 --> 01:44:20.810


I feel great.01:44:22.145 --> 01:44:28.185


Me too, I'm, I'm so excited, like, and thank you, like, this has been amazing, and I just so, so appreciate you.01:44:28.185 --> 01:44:28.534


Thank you.01:44:29.135 --> 01:44:29.585


Thank you.01:44:29.585 --> 01:44:31.664


You're very kind, you're very kind.01:44:32.244 --> 01:44:32.875


Thank you, thank you.01:44:32.875 --> 01:44:38.585


No, and I'm so, I'm so excited to share this with, uh, with other people too, because like, you're wonderful.01:44:38.585 --> 01:44:39.074


Yeah, absolutely.01:44:39.074 --> 01:44:39.625


Thank you.01:44:39.875 --> 01:44:43.555


And, uh, and I will let you, uh, get on with the rest of, of your evening.01:44:43.965 --> 01:44:45.614


And I just so, so appreciate you.01:44:45.614 --> 01:44:46.135


Thank you.01:44:46.731 --> 01:44:48.231


Thank you so much for listening.01:44:48.399 --> 01:44:55.448


Please check episode notes, there you'll find links to Monika's comics and her wonderful book that's available on Amazon.01:44:55.479 --> 01:44:58.149


I hope you'll go show her some love and appreciation.01:44:58.421 --> 01:45:08.742


Episode notes is also where you can find all my links, so you can check out my website, follow me on social media, subscribe on YouTube, and catch me live on Twitch.01:45:08.742 --> 01:45:31.101


I want to remind everyone that with the disruption and changes we've been seeing with social media platforms, this is a good time to make sure you're following creators, organizations, educators, artists, and activists on other platforms in case they're forced to move elsewhere and so you can have access to anything they might be producing That's being censored by social media.01:45:31.101 --> 01:45:33.442


We need to stick together and stay connected.01:45:33.552 --> 01:45:39.252


I especially encourage you to support your favorite creators on platforms like Patreon and Substack.01:45:40.063 --> 01:45:45.863


If you didn't know, it's free to follow someone on Patreon if you can't afford a subscription.01:45:46.025 --> 01:45:50.395


A massive shout out to all my Patrons that made today's episode possible.01:45:50.826 --> 01:45:58.430


Thank you Emerald, Meadow, Urja, Kathleen, Sedonka, Bryony, and the Gob.01:45:59.121 --> 01:46:00.020


Welcome in Gob.01:46:00.770 --> 01:46:02.841


We're so excited to have you with us.01:46:03.203 --> 01:46:07.913


Y'all are absolutely incredible and I am so grateful every single day.01:46:08.514 --> 01:46:13.554


It's been especially wonderful getting to know some of you more in Discord and on Twitch streams.01:46:14.003 --> 01:46:15.354


Thank you all so much.01:46:15.759 --> 01:46:35.639


This is an especially meaningful episode for me thanking the Patrons because of the time gap involved, because this was recorded a year ago, and then so many of you have supported me and stayed with me during the year plus mental health break that I had to take.01:46:36.269 --> 01:46:45.689


So you have supported me all that time waiting for this episode to finally happen, and it means so, so much to me.01:46:45.944 --> 01:46:50.533


Thank you all so much for all of your, your faith and your support.01:46:51.373 --> 01:46:52.663


Thank you for sticking with me.01:46:53.514 --> 01:46:57.963


Today's episode was edited and produced by me, Hecate.01:46:58.213 --> 01:47:05.533


The music is, Your Heart is a Muscle the Size of Your Fist, used with the permission of Ramshackle Glory.01:47:06.373 --> 01:47:07.634


Thank you again for listening.01:47:08.243 --> 01:47:09.684


This has been Finding OK.01:47:10.032 --> 01:47:13.761


Destroy the kyriarchy and keep working towards collective liberation.01:47:14.047 --> 01:47:16.837


Take care of yourself and take care of each other.01:47:17.438 --> 01:47:20.228


Your heart is a muscle size of your fist.01:47:20.408 --> 01:47:25.507


Keep on loving, keep on fighting, and hold on and hold on.01:47:27.068 --> 01:47:28.988


Hold on for your life, for your life.01:47:31.101 --> 01:47:33.421


Your heart is a muscle the size of your fist.01:47:33.752 --> 01:47:35.061


Keep on loving.01:47:35.061 --> 01:47:35.391


Keep on fighting.01:47:36.051 --> 01:47:37.712


And hold on, and hold on.01:47:37.712 --> 01:47:40.152


Hold on for your life.